Shariah in Britain or USA?

[Halfbreed]

Could it happen?

The Archbishop of Canterbury says the adoption of certain aspects of Sharia law in the UK "seems unavoidable".

Advocating the adoption of parts of Sharia, or Islamic Law, in Britain yesterday.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3333953.ece

Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts of the country, a survey reveals today. The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.

Overall, the findings depict a Muslim community becoming more radical and feeling more alienated from mainstream society, even though 91 per cent still say they feel loyal to Britain. The results of the poll, conducted for the Sunday Telegraph, came as thousands of Muslims staged a fresh protest in London yesterday against the publication of cartoons of Mohammed. In Libya, at least 10 people died in protests linked to the caricatures. And in Pakistan, a cleric was reported to have put a $1 million (£575,000) bounty on the head of the Danish cartoonist who drew the original pictures.

Last night, Sadiq Khan, the Labour MP involved with the official task force set up after the July attacks, said the findings were "alarming". He added: "Vast numbers of Muslims feel disengaged and alienated from mainstream British society." Sir Iqbal Sacranie, the secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: "This poll confirms the widespread opposition among British Muslims to the so-called war on terror."

The most startling finding is the high level of support for applying sharia law in "predominantly Muslim" areas of Britain.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml




Barack Hussein Obama is a charismatic media actor with connections to racism, Kenya, Odinga, and Islam. In 1991, when Obama joined the Trinity United Church of Christ ( first sign ever that he is christian ) in Chicago, he pledged allegiance to something called the Black Value System. It encourages blacks to group together and separate from the larger American society by pooling their money, patronizing black-only businesses and backing black leaders.

This is racial separatism and against what the media's image of Obama is. The media shows Obama as a uniter and speaker of equality.

Obama's "unashamedly black" church (http://www.tucc.org/about.htm) preaches the politics of black nationalism. And its dashiki-wearing preacher -- who married Obama and his wife and now acts as his personal spiritual adviser -- is militantly Afrocentric. "We are an African people," the Rev. Jeremiah Wright reminds his flock, "and remain true to our native land, the mother continent."

Wright once traveled to Libya with black supremacist Louis Farrakhan to meet with terrorist leader Muammar Qaddafi. Last year at a Chicago gala, Wright honored his old pal Farrakhan, who's fond of calling whites "blue-eyed devils," for lifetime achievement.

It comes as little surprise then that Wright would think Israel a "racist" occupier of Palestinians, while describing the 9/11 attacks as a "wake-up call" to "white America" for ignoring the concerns of "people of color."

The candidate already has heeded his church's "nonnegotiable commitment to Africa," spending an inordinate amount of his campaign time on the Kenyan crisis, for one. Obama has close family ties to Kenya, and even founded a school in his ancestral village -- the Senator Obama School.

In the bloody conflict there, which already has claimed some 700 lives, Obama appears to have sided with opposition leader Raila Odinga, head of the same Luo tribe to which Obama's late Muslim father belonged.

Odinga, Obama's brother, is a Marxist who reportedly has made a pact with a hard-line Islamic group in Kenya to establish Shariah courts throughout the country. He has also vowed to ban booze and pork and impose Muslim dress codes on women

So what does he truly believe in? Politicians lie so I'm on the fence.

http://www.truveo.com/Shariah-Law-is-Coming-to-America/id/2741928616

[AGT-Shady]

Mountain out of molehill.

[Halfbreed]

are you trying to say it didn't happen?

Muslims ‘don’t want Sharia law’

Feb 10 2008 by Catherine Evans, Wales On Sunday

A MUSLIM leader declared last night: “We don’t want Sharia law in Wales.”

But secretary of the Welsh Muslim Council Saleem Kidwai backed the under-fire Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams, saying his message had been taken out of context, and labelled the backlash “typical Islamophobia”.

The archbishop’s comments that Sharia law is “unavoidable” have sparked outrage across Britain, after he was perceived to support adopting aspects of Islamic law in the UK. At least two General Synod members have called for his resignation.

A statement on his website said that he “certainly did not call for its introduction as some kind of parallel jurisdiction to the civil law”.

Sharia law – which is only used in Islamic states – is notorious for its use of barbaric punishments such as flogging, amputation and death by stoning.

Speaking at the Cardiff branch of the Muslim Council for Wales yesterday, Mr Kidwai (pictured above) appealed for calm and emphasised that no Muslims had called for Sharia law to come to Britain.

“This is a knee-jerk reaction – typical Islamophobia in the crudest sense,” he said.

“It’s creating fear for ordinary people, showing Sharia law to be cruel and putting a community down. Probably 90 per cent of people don’t even know what Sharia law is.

“At one time this sort of response was about anything to do with Communists, now it’s Muslims,” he said.

Mr Kidwai added that a Sharia council does exist in Wales, but differs dramatically from a Sharia court.

The council gives advice on mundane issues such as inheritance, divorce and mortgages, but has no absolute authority.

“Are Sharia courts coming to Wales? No. We are in Britain, not living under an Islamic state and Sharia law does not apply. But we do have a Sharia council in Wales, which deals with local issues,” said Mr Kidwai.

“The council consists of six members from various different schools of thought. Its main remit is advising the Muslim community about personal matters.

“Obviously, most of the time this is related to marital problems.

“A Sharia council doesn’t have the same power as a Supreme or High Court. It simply gives advice and it is up to the individual whether to follow that advice or not. A Sharia council has no legal authority. You cannot force religion on anybody,” he added.

In defence of the archbishop’s comments, Mr Kidwai said Dr Williams had not called for extreme punishments to allowed in Britain, but was instead trying to provoke healthy debate.

“He has never mentioned that Sharia law is what we should have,” said Mr Kidwai.

“He is not naive, he is a learned scholar and doesn’t do things on the spur of the moment.

“It shows his magnanimity and vision that he can see and appreciate and value that there is something good in it.

“He’s not saying it should be brought here and imposed on everybody. His vision was of fairness and justice, rather than making political points.”

Mr Kidwai said there was much misunderstanding about Sharia law.

“Whenever Sharia law is mentioned, people talk about floggings, hands being cut off and executions,” he said.

“It upsets us. These are deterrents which are only used in extreme circumstances abroad – to be used as a last resort – and we are not asking for that to be brought here.”

He added the recent backlash was a step backwards for the Welsh Muslim Council.

“We didn’t ask the Archbishop of Canterbury to make a statement, nor are we asking for Sharia law to come to Wales. Without being involved we are bearing the brunt of it,” he said.

Yesterday, Dr Williams remained silent over his controversial comments.

He was greeted with a mixture of applause, boos and camera flash bulbs as he left a memorial service at Great St Mary’s Church in Cambridge. A crowd of around 40 people had gathered outside.

There were no signs of any protest against Dr Williams, although one person shouted “resign” and two people booed as he left the church. Another two people clapped.

[AGT-Shady]

Mountain out of molehill.

^

[FluxCapacitor]

Obama isn't muslim nor a black separatist. That propaganda crap has been going on lately.

For someone who is so crazy you sure accept things really easily.

[-Dirby-]

Anything to make Ron Paul look like more of a winner.

Bet I could find some bullshit story about him on the internet.

[Halfbreed]

Go ahead, the difference is, I wouldn't care. I am only interested in truth. For you to sit back in your fuzzy little armchair at your desk, patronize me, speak in a condescending manner, and poke jokes when the facts are in front of you, only makes you ignorant and certainly not someone that has backbone to validate or disregard any comments.

I don't understand why people like yourself, will so blindly like sheep, follow and believe in someone or something you know nothing about, and then have the audacity to speak in a condescending manner like you happen to know the gateway to truth, when you bring nothing of importance to the conversation, other then rhetoric of a three year old child's comeback after an insult. Meanwhile nobody has insulted you, only challenged what you used to perceive as truth. Stop being so hateful when someone disagrees with your perfect harmonious viewpoints until you have read all the evidence for yourself. Try to learn to not be so closed minded, seek truth, and stop being sheep.

[Sutterkane]

I'm not an Obama supporter, but I've read enough about the man to know he has been Church of Christ for 26 years. Even if he were muslim somehow, if something like this came to the US, the south would probably secede again. No way in hell the bible belt puts up with that shit. Ever.

[Levicon]

Here is a good example of what Obama believes.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid353515028?bctid=416343938

[dys]

Agreed HB, Obama's influence on the British judicial system is something we all need to look out for.

[Halfbreed]

Here is a good example of what Obama believes.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid353515028?bctid=416343938

Thank you for the video. Obama may be able to convince me he is a Christian but he still supports African and Black radical movements. Especially the "Black Value System"

[-Dirby-]

Thank you for the video. Obama may be able to convince me he is a Christian but he still supports African and Black radical movements. Especially the "Black Value System"

Is it so hard to believe that someone changed? It's my own personal understanding that God works on your heart throughout your entire journey with Him (believe it or not, this "sheep" believes in Jesus the Son of God :o ). Go figure huh?

[Stayne]

Halfbreed, your running the risk of joining the ranks of beano by being added to my ignore list. Beano is the only other person on that list, so that should give you an idea of how well I tolerate other people's thoughts and opinions, as well as how much I appreciate the majority of your posts.

Reign your crazy self in if you wish to be taken seriously.

[AGT-Shady]

For you to sit back in your fuzzy little armchair at your desk, patronize me, speak in a condescending manner, and poke jokes when the facts are in front of you, only makes you ignorant and certainly not someone that has backbone to validate or disregard any comments.

I don't understand why people like yourself, will so blindly like sheep, follow and believe in someone or something you know nothing about, and then have the audacity to speak in a condescending manner like you happen to know the gateway to truth, when you bring nothing of importance to the conversation, other then rhetoric of a three year old child's comeback after an insult. Meanwhile nobody has insulted you, only challenged what you used to perceive as truth. Stop being so hateful when someone disagrees with your perfect harmonious viewpoints until you have read all the evidence for yourself. Try to learn to not be so closed minded, seek truth, and stop being sheep.

The irony in this post is just mind-boggling.

Occam's razor HB.

[Toastie]

I think its worth considering.. The last prominant Muslim figure in America who started out despising whites and then later questioned the muslim faith and the actions they were taking in seperating themselves of whtie america was murdered by muslims.

Therefore its hard to believe that with Obama having a Muslim father would so easily be a devout Christian. I would think there would be more notable criticism of Obama from Muslim leaders being that he is a descendant of a Muslim man, and a leader of a Christian world.

Not saying this concludes anything about Obama, but its not crazy to suggest some underlying Muslim ties he may be involved with and that he could still be all for BLACK POWER! But probably not likely now.

[Tone-Loc]

hey someone give me a shout when this thread actually starts discussing the topic. kthnx

[Halfbreed]

The real debate over the topic is will America or the UK have to make exceptions to existing laws to allow Muslims to practice Sharia. If we are to protect our citizens religious rights, do they get the same religious protections to carry out Sharia?

Flogging in the streets anyone?

[PerPlexeD]

Religion is dumb.

Bye.

[Stayne]

Last I heard, polygamy is illegal. Mormons had to adjust their beliefs to fit with the nation's laws (well.. the nation actually made that law in reaction to Mormons, I think).

Anyhow, there is precedent for NOT allowing a religion to carry out their own form of justice, with the exception of restricting people from participating in that religion. But as far as I know, religions don't have the right to jail people, sever hands, or flog people. I tend to think that those days, if the come, are a long way off.

I hope they never come.

[dys]

I agree with ya, Stayne, completely. (holy crap this must not be a political discussion! :D ) What worries me is the extreme political correctness sweeping this country. Although mostly everyone seems to agree that PC has gone too far, it doesn't seem the ones that are in charge care to see or address it. As population percentages continue to change, as will society's standards.

[Stayne]

Extreme political correctness? Really? It feels to me like we already passed that era of oversensitive feelings somewhat, and are moving into a time of more honesty (with the exception of Hillary--any attack on her is an attack on all the females of all species that ever existed and ever will exist). That might be because my only interaction with nonacademics is through the internet, though.

As I understand it, the problem of Sharia law in Europe has arisen because Muslim immigrants tended to form tight communities, isolated from the surrounding society. In these communities, they took the law into their own hands. Europe's tolerance of other beliefs and practices, usually considered a virtue, allowed this practice to fester as the communities grew. Now, those small minority communities have grown into a solid voting block, and politicians that want to keep their positions are starting to see appeasing them as a way to do so. (Reminiscent of the way Evangelicals were targeted and used for Republican gain.)

I know of some communities like this where polygamist mormon groups (fundamentalist mormons) have run off into the desert in southern utah and formed thier own trailer-park. Tom Greene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Green_(polygamist)) was one of these. He served 5 years in prison for statutory rape of a 13 year old girl. Warren Jeffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs) is one of these, who actually ran off the male adolescents so he could keep the females adolescents for himself and a select few elders (pretty much chimpanzees behavior). Jeffs has been found guilty of "accomplice to rape". Anyways, point being, so far Americans still believe in the notion that its ok to believe what you want so long as you don't harm other people.

I don't know of any of these types of muslim communities in the USA, but that doesn't mean they aren't here. However, they will have to compete with all of the other current voter blocks that are better known: evangelicals (making up substantial numbers of the GOP vote this primary), blacks, latinos, Jews, union workers, single women, white men (yes, this year white men are in question), under-30's, etc etc.

You know, I'm really tired of the politics of division. I agree with Obama when he says we all have common needs, common goals, and that we can work together to build on them.

[dys]

Extreme political correctness? Really? It feels to me like we already passed that era of oversensitive feelings somewhat, and are moving into a time of more honesty..
Perhaps where I was going with that doesn't pertain to the thread, but I do think PC is still going styrong. I'm thinking things like no Christmas trees anywhere, complaints of God in the pledge, less and less free speech imo.

As I understand it, the problem of Sharia law in Europe has arisen because Muslim immigrants tended to form tight communities, isolated from the surrounding society. In these communities, they took the law into their own hands. Europe's tolerance of other beliefs and practices, usually considered a virtue, allowed this practice to fester as the communities grew. Now, those small minority communities have grown into a solid voting block, and politicians that want to keep their positions are starting to see appeasing them as a way to do so. (Reminiscent of the way Evangelicals were targeted and used for Republican gain.)
Anyways, point being, so far Americans still believe in the notion that its ok to believe what you want so long as you don't harm other people.
I agree for the most part but I do think certain groups, which you already listed, are in some ways being catered to. For example, the way the democrats bend over backwards to get the latino vote. I guess my point was that eventually i could see it at least being discussed/considered if such groups continue to rise in population. Anyways, we already agreed with eachother and neither of us want it to become reality. :)

[Tone-Loc]

Finally some real conversation, rather than campaigning going on in here.

As far as I am concerned, in America "Man's Law" (read: Constitution) reigns above all other laws, including "God's Law." I am sure Christians, Muslims, and a lot of others don't like that concept, but it's really the only way you are going to have the freedom to practice your own religion.

The Chrsitian Conservatives of this country are just as guilty of the political expedience and forcing of morality on others that they love to admonish liberals for. The can't see 75-150 years down the road where another religion might make equal theirs in popularity or surpass it. Then they might learn the true meaning of "bully pulpit."

[Stayne]

Finally some real conversation, rather than campaigning going on in here.

As far as I am concerned, in America "Man's Law" (read: Constitution) reigns above all other laws, including "God's Law." I am sure Christians, Muslims, and a lot of others don't like that concept, but it's really the only way you are going to have the freedom to practice your own religion.

The Chrsitian Conservatives of this country are just as guilty of the political expedience and forcing of morality on others that they love to admonish liberals for. The can't see 75-150 years down the road where another religion might make equal theirs in popularity or surpass it. Then they might learn the true meaning of "bully pulpit."
Amen.