sigh STA

[Hellsy]

Sanctic_r had choppy problems, especially over the water area. You'd turn left-- and suddenly be at a right angle. I just gave the fuck up during the STA match and so did most of my team.

I've heard other people bitch about it.

Was this due to a lack of playtesting or does the map legitimately suck, or does my system / commands just suck (I doubt this).

And did anyone else suffer through this incessantly annoying bullshit tonight?

Yeah I got massive FPS lag. Bottom of the ramp and under the curvy thing where the only areas that were ok for me, I averaged 40-50 fps there and it was stead. Up at the button you can see the whole inner base and I dropped right to 10-30fps... close to the flag and things drop right down to 10fps, makes concing and bunnyhopping pretty hard. Same things happen at the water entrance, fps drops totally when you get close to the flag.

Seems a shame because the map could have been pretty fun. At least the switch area was fun... if only the mapper had added a few visibility blocks to keep FPS up -- pretty basic stuff, but for some reason the entire upper base is visible all over, making it lag massively.

Depending on how many people have fps problems so severe the map is unplayable, I think the league should choose a different map for next week. I think in future leagues should check the polycount of maps before scheduling them... a lot of time the people that schedule them have super-fast PCs and don't notice the fps drop, whereas a lot of peopel with slower PCs struggle to do anything at all once they get into action on the map. Same thing happened with schtop in the euro leagues, a whole bunch of people complained about the terrible lag near the front door... I think security_r lags for a lot of people too when you get near the center of the base.

[BlueFire]

I've been hearing about these problems from some people, but it seems really odd.

People with gf2's or 8500s didn't have fps drop at all, while people with 9500s had problems (ie billdoor). So I'm a little bit confused as to why this happened.

I couldn't play because of my fps... and my suck, but mostly because of my fps!

So yeah, I'd love to see another map next week. :)

I only have a 7200... it's a bad card, but I know there are other clanners with the same or worse setups, and we don't have too many problems on most maps, at least nothing that renders the game unplayable. It's not just detailed architecture that causes fps lag, it's usually massive visible areas. HL isn't designed to have so much visible at the same time, at least in an internet game... because the visible area is so large, it leads to up to 6 or 7 (or more) players being rendered every frame, instead of the more usually 3, 4 or 5. Not to mention other things such as explosions, projectiles, grenades, sentries, packs etc. The HL model rendering engine is really slow, so all that extra stuff hits FPS massively... it's also CPU intensive, seemingly moreso on radeon cards than gf ones. Also with so many players visible, it leads to massive choke for players on slower connections and lags some servers, because of all the increased network traffic (usually the server only sends data for visible entities, a massive visible area means its sending a lot more data to each player). The biggest problem in sanctic_r's flagroom (aside from the massive visible area off to the right) is that you can see into the entire respawn from there, with its completely stupid epoly count of over 3300. That seems more like a bug than anything since there really isn't much in that respawn and the epoly count of the 2fort respawns (which have around the same number of packs) is only about 1500, so maybe this can be fixed for the next release.

[Koron]

my laptop was fine

[:+:KapPa:+:]

Yeah it was really choppy for me when I went from the button to the main part of the upper level (Ge4 Ti 4200 128mb)

[sai]

i liked the map. i saw no problems with it.

[emo]

our demo got stuck in the water somehow.

[Bang]

normally play with 15-30 fps, no problems.

[Primaris]

can i get a poll of how many ppl that siad the map suck lost tonight? lol.. i'll probably put out a r2, but there was extensive map testing actually, it played fine for our match also, not one complaint, people learned new concs, and i loved to see the different D strats evolve.. honestly i dont care if you don't like it, but i thought it was funny how you blame the map on how your clan performed... i mean, why didnt this issue come up while you were in practice :)

[Ji[n]xx]

i didn't see any problems either

[DaedaluS]

i usually play with 15-30 fps like bang does. So i didn't really have any problem with fps except i was at 11 fps almost the whole time. Still hard to play =(

[Sleepy Mexican]

Me and my 2400 didn't lag, but it isn't a great map.

[Primaris]

Originally posted by Hellsy
. I just gave the fuck up during the STA match and so did most of my team.

Was this due to a lack of playtesting or does the map legitimately suck, or does my system / commands just suck (I doubt this).

And did anyone else suffer through this incessantly annoying bullshit tonight? [/B]

I'm sorry forever, this is what i was responding too, i should have siad; "so hellsy did you win tonight".. honestly. If he didnt like the map or he is still using a tnt2, he didn't have to be an ass about it.

p.s. i am planning on revising it once more, i am aware of the current problems.

[ReEn]

the water lags rockets, but its a general bug, sorta like in cz2. should make it thinner imo, and fix the fps. itd be a good map then, but for now its a shitty one that needs to be replaced

[RebbeL]

dude I got the same weird lag in the water and my FPS cut in half.. and I have an 8500

its a fun map though.. :D

seemed ok for me

[rollo]

love sanctic_r!!!

i get a constant 85fps on all maps, this one made my fps drop to about 65 when there was a lot of action by the open area/batts...

i had mad problems with it with 44.03 dets, i went back to 41.09 and it was running smooth, geforce4 ti4400 128mb....

[Marlon]

hmm i had sum fps problems 2 D: we still won tho so i wont bitch :X

[fiend]

fps never dropped that i noticed. however, it does irritate me that both spawns look exactly alike so you don't know where to teleport

[Azlan]

The water in the FR is one cause of the FPS drop, but I'm not sure of the technical reasons for it. I know as a d demo piping down there when flag was down, that my pipes wouldn't roll very much. They'd hit the ground and just stop, which made me have to adjust quite a bit to get a decent pipetrap down there. Seems like a rush job on the map to me, but the architecture is quite impressive. The multi-lasers are one of the neatest things I've seen in any tfc map. Reminds me of Episode I everytime I play the map :)

[[DO]-Worship]

Me and my gf2 did fine.

[MystiKaL]

worst. map. ever.

sup fortsake3 :rolleyes:

try playing that map in software mode like i do.

[M.Karnage]

We had a bye, but we still practiced it and none of our guys had any complaints whatsoever. My only complaint is that it is eerily similar to openfire...they are practically the same map except that this map has one extra way in, the stairs....and it's bigger, so thank God for that.

[Schizef]

wow, i'm on a 1.33 ghz w/ a gf2 and maintained 75 fps the entire time... Anyways, I thought the map was really good, I enjoyed it a lot. It was a really refreshing change of pace from a lot of the staple maps we play.

Originally posted by Primaris
can i get a poll of how many ppl that siad the map suck lost tonight? lol.. i'll probably put out a r2, but there was extensive map testing actually, it played fine for our match also, not one complaint, people learned new concs, and i loved to see the different D strats evolve.. honestly i dont care if you don't like it, but i thought it was funny how you blame the map on how your clan performed... i mean, why didnt this issue come up while you were in practice :)

We won and the majority of us hated it. Personally, any map that benches me isn't going to get very high ratings. :(

[- |nLv|EdgeCrusher -]

We had no complaints about anything in the map so far in all of our scrims and matches.

It was solid for me personally and I played D demo and saw plenty of spam along with all areas of the map when the flag moved.


GJ and fun!

^^ very choppy fps low

hm, my tnt2 seemed to have owned all of your fancy cards then ^_^

[jabroni]

Originally posted by sai
i liked the map. i saw no problems with it.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally posted by BlueFire

People with gf2's or 8500s didn't have fps drop at all, while people with 9500s had problems (ie billdoor). So I'm a little bit confused as to why this happened.

Graphics settings, maybe? I used to play with 50 constant FPS on my old RAGE card (8 MB) and 333 MHz box, but I'd be playing in Software mode at 400x300 resolution too.

geforce4 t14200 128mb
amd xp 1.6ghz
640mb ddr ram

didnt not notice any problems w/ map except for the fact our match took place on recongamer. and well, you know how well that usually goes.


and despite how big the map is, it still seems to focus 4/5th of your d around the flag

[kretz]

I really didn't like the map and my fps dropped about 20.

[KnightmareZ]

I thought it was a great map, espically for O, concing is so easy on tha map.

[Ugly_Jim]

is negation still around? not many ppl in your chan, but i guess that may be because it's 2 am

Originally posted by fiend
fps never dropped that i noticed. however, it does irritate me that both spawns look exactly alike so you don't know where to teleport

not a problem... if you spawn with 10fps, you're in the top spawn, 40fps and you're in the battlements spawn. Like I said, if that water spawn was tucked away behind a corner, it would really help.

I also had problems with getting stuck under the water when crouch bhopping, it was pretty weird... the water should be made shallower I think.

Another thing that could help is if instead of those steps down betweeen the laser/lower entrance and the main fr area, they could be replaced by a dividing wall or t junction as in sd2. That would probably help the lag a massive amount.

[GhOsT]

"it does irritate me that both spawns look exactly alike so you don't know where to teleport"

Somebody was never good at those puzzels where you have to tell the deifference between the 2 pictures. The spawn by the flag has a mettal grate type ceiling and the one by the button has a solid ceiling with lights around it.

I don't remember seeing this much complaint about the map when it has been played in UGC 7v7 twice and MLF once (since i have been playing in those).

[GhOsT]

Originally posted by billdoor
Another thing that could help is if instead of those steps down betweeen the laser/lower entrance and the main fr area, they could be replaced by a dividing wall or t junction as in sd2. That would probably help the lag a massive amount.

That would create a major chokepoint though and make the map even more defensive. It's really fun coming from those stairs and doing a banana conc right to the flag.

[Twizted]

People with gf2's or 8500s didn't have fps drop at all, while people with 9500s had problems (ie billdoor). So I'm a little bit confused as to why this happened.

I have a 9800 Pro with the Cat 3.4 drivers and mine was as smooth as a babies ass. Was actually smoother than the ATI card is on most other maps. I got a constant 85FPS all throughout all of our practices and what not, and I moved around quite a bit.

EDIT: Also, the spawns don't look exactly alike. One spawn has a cieling texture, which is the one by flag room. The other spawn has no cieling texture except for the basic ugly wall texture, and its by the halfpipe.

[Hellsy]

Originally posted by BlueFire
I've been hearing about these problems from some people, but it seems really odd.

People with gf2's or 8500s didn't have fps drop at all, while people with 9500s had problems (ie billdoor). So I'm a little bit confused as to why this happened.

I have a GF2 Ti, AMD Athlon 1.5, 256k ram.

It was bad lag. Made playing the map worthless.

We have to have this map 2 weeks in a row?

[OhGr]

from my D position not a big problem on the map, but I have noticed the majority of ppl are complaiing that this map is offensive nightmare, and most complain about choke or lagging out when they shouldnt...

I would just suggestion a poll on new map for next week or bump the next map up a week. but thats up to our admins in STA who we all love and look to for guidence and help!!!

come on BD think of something ur smart dont try to snowball us! :)

[Corsair]

This map has been on Phat Farm for a couple months with no complaints. I personally had no problems with it, and I played the entire match in the flag room area.

900 mHz Thunderbird
256 RAM
GF3 (forget which one)




Also, I liked having a new DEFENSIVE map for a change. I suspect that next week, with offense having another week of practice, scoring will go up.

[OhGr]

agreed

[TNT Zor]

AMD XP 1800+ (1.333ghz)
512mb 266mhz PC2100 DDR memory
GeForce3 64mb DDR video @ 1280x960 resolution using OpenGL

I had absolutely no issues with this map. It was fun, and I heard no complaints from the rest of my team--in practice or match.

As for the respawns, just look up and check for the lighted ceiling.. if you see lights, you're on the bottom.

[TNT Zor]

are any of you that are having problems with this map running in Direct3D mode?

[DUGAN]

Originally posted by GhOsT
I don't remember seeing this much complaint about the map when it has been played in UGC 7v7 twice and MLF once (since i have been playing in those).

You are right, no complaints about the map were filed to either league. Oh well, sad to hear you all had trouble with this map, I personally enjoy it.

[OhGr]

maybe it does go back to who lost and is pissed...but even so I did hear alot of choke complaints...which I dont understand to much cause I played and had great time in this map, scrims with nlv and match with KEA.

and I look forward to it again next week. just trying to see where everyone is getting this problem from...was it recon servers? or anything like that maybe?

[DecoyMilk]

-NULL- had no problems, looking forward to it next week.

[Crap]

fps never dropped that i noticed. however, it does irritate me that both spawns look exactly alike so you don't know where to teleport


yes whoever made the map, change resuplys colors, or put a huge 1 and 2 in each one to know where to teleport :D

I like the map, beside the fps dropping its fun

[Hellsy]

It has nothing to do with win or lose.

It has to do with playing a map that looks like someone is flashing Kodak stills in front of you every time you are around the flag.

Never seen this in TFC before-- and I've played tons of maps throughout my 3 year TFC tenure.

I'm not looking forward to playing it next week. If I wanted choppiness, I'd just "rate 1".

[PHISH]

Originally posted by Crap
yes whoever made the map, change resuplys colors, or put a huge 1 and 2 in each one to know where to teleport :D

I like the map, beside the fps dropping its fun

Hehe look at the cieling, they are completely different- that's how i figured it out in our match anyway

[Primaris]

Originally posted by Crap
yes whoever made the map, change resuplys colors, or put a huge 1 and 2 in each one to know where to teleport :D


ya well look closer :p
the flagroom spawn has red/blue wall depending on what team your on
the halfpipe spawn is just gray walls
and well ya the ceilings are not the same at all
not that much of a dif but it gets me through.

[Kaneda]

You guys gettin 75+ fps consistantly... how so?

I have a 64mb (GFX Card) NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200, (Display) 1152x864/32bit/60Hz <-- from my irc script...

So how come mind stays at 60 fps and never goes higher? Only seems to drop a small bit when there is massive spam in an open area... What is up with this?

[Necromancer]

fps_max 99
or max_fps 99

can never member which 1 it is...


and turn off your Vertical sync.

that should get ya 99 fps unless your prob is not this, and just an old CPU, but odds are its this =0

[spin]

i have a 32 mb gfx card(yes im serious) and i would spawn and have a choke of about 2 or 3(mind you, this was on pf1). id run out of my base and it would go up to 15-20. id enter the enmy base and it would go up to 50-75. then when i got to the flag room it would be at 100. not sure if choke is directly effected by my gfx card but that just sucks fucking balls.

[porkchop]

We played both our rounds on a recongamer.
I had zero problems and my usual high fps, and I don't have a very ballsy setup.
P3 933
256 RAM
Geforce GTS2

Couple of my guys did complain about low fps in the FR.
Nice to have another tense, defensive battle to play now n again IMO.

[Acharne]

my comp did fine until i saw that damn window in the water.. dropped me to 60-70 fps

i dislike it for a few reasons:

1 - lasers are impossible to defend unless you have like three guys on it.

2 - the base is fucking huge, honestly, you need like 10 people on defense to defend it.

3 - to do a decent defense you have to have everybody by the flag, and had to place some very heavy classes in the area, which made it kinda lame.

I thought the map was pretty good for striking a balance between button and flag defense...

[Willy Wonka]

Originally posted by Kaneda
You guys gettin 75+ fps consistantly... how so?

I have a 64mb (GFX Card) NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200, (Display) 1152x864/32bit/60Hz <-- from my irc script...

So how come mind stays at 60 fps and never goes higher? Only seems to drop a small bit when there is massive spam in an open area... What is up with this?
I think your monitor refresh rate should be higher if that is your standard desktop refresh. Mine is at 75, but I have a fairly cheap monitor.

Check this out
http://www.thecatacombs.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77
Look at the 7th messaged down "60 fps in Windows XP / 2000 problem"

and specifically this program
http://www.pwnage.net/primaris/reforce.zip

[Zogo]

I think it should be revised again... it's playable but it drops my FPS down like no other *league* map I've ever played.

[Necromancer]

i had no problems with it at all.

1 - lasers are impossible to defend unless you have like three guys on it.

HW on ramp demo on button. thast 2.

3 - to do a decent defense you have to have everybody by the flag, and had to place some very heavy classes in the area, which made it kinda lame.

demo flag soldeir fd doing incomms HW romming between button and balc, and a engy doing his or her thing.

well, if it makes any difference, my clan won.

but, i don't like the lasers still. they are very easy to get, even with a tag team up there.

this map does bring a distinct difference - defend lasers or flag. the lasers stop a main route from being used, meaning that the enemy offense will want the lasers down all of the time; but you don't want this cause your flag lasers will go down. the question is, should you not defend the button at all, and have lasers down all the time or should you defend it, and hope that the smaller flag defense doesn't fall when the lasers fall

[porkchop]

We lost 3-2 but I felt our D was pretty stingy, as was the other team's.

Both of us used a sort of "rotating" D. Sometimes we'd make it back to the button to defend after the lasers came back on, and sometimes we wouldn't.

[Primaris]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by treget


but, i don't like the lasers still. they are very easy to get, even with a tag team up there.


May i remind you. This (however similar looks) is NOT openfire_l

what does that have to do with anything? this maps resemblence to openfire_l has nothing to do with the fact that i don't like putting defense on the lasers becuase they are easy to get, and it seperates your d to the extreme.

[Primaris]

Originally posted by treget
what does that have to do with anything? this maps resemblence to openfire_l has nothing to do with the fact that i don't like putting defense on the lasers becuase they are easy to get

Because it seems that you want a button more like openfire_l were it is a little easyer to defend. simply put it was a rough toss out, i should have been more clear. Appologie*

[Max Volume-FkM-]

I run a ti4200 128 mb with latest drivers and my fps dropped to 30 at 1024x768 res. I don't like sanctic at all

[handy]

ive played the map in 2 diff leagues and it was fine everytime... ive noticed no problems with the playing of the map :/

[SPQR]

I think we should focus on getting rid of security_r :x

[torak]

It was a great map and didn't lag me at all...but I guess that's because I use a 9700 2.4 Ghz setup :0