Consumism in youg people

[agent_ze]

I was watching a tv show about how America's youth is so consumist nowadays. And yeah it's true, american kids are kinda different from european ( at least portuguese ) kids.

For example, a lot, if not almost all american high school kids have a job. And I'm not talking about kids that need money to support their family. I'm talking about middle- high class kids with big, spacefull houses, cars, etc.

Here very few kids work. Are we filthy rich? No, middle class in here would be considered poor in there. Are we lazy? Of course not.

So why do americans work, and kids from here don't?

Well because we don't buy nearly as much things as youngsters over there do. A normal kid here has like 3, let's say 4 pairs of pants, some less, some more. A kid here has only one or two pair of shoes / sneakers / whatever. I suppose it must be different over there. Is it? Tell me about it.

[ethEreal]

Different cultures. American society is founded on the premise, "Life, Liberty, and Property." Americans enjoy being financially independent, especially teenagers. I'm not exactly sure as to what you're trying to ascertain through this thread. I guess the reason why Americans enjoy buying SUVs, eating til your arteries harden, etc. is because we can. Unfortunately, this kind of mentality leads to complascency, which will/is the downfall of this country.

[Tripwire]

most Americans desire lots of material goods, and to get them, they need money, and to get money, they need jobs.

I really disagree with your "Communist" term, because we aren't helping each other out equally. We all want our own stuff! Why else do we work for money to buy stuff.


Agent_ze, Portugal must have one crappy school system. Learn some terms will ya.

[OuTaKeR]

I remember learning in my American history/literature class about the three values of Americans: Conformity, Materialism, and Individualism (I think these are it, correct me if I'm wrong).

Materialism has always been part of the American culture, always wanting more, newer STUFF. I guess teens that have jobs show this value just because they have a job.

[Cain]

He's saying "consumerist" not "communist" (or that's what I think).

We live in a consumer-driven society where your social identity is inextricably tied to your brand choices. Thomas Frank, editor of the Baffler and author of One Market Under God (good book, read it), identifies what he calls the "commodification of dissent." "Commodifying dissent" refers to traditionally rebellious actions, symbols and phrases that have become associated with major corporate brands and logos(think along the lines of Raiders' jerseys). The quintessential figure here is "Eminem," who portrays himself as anti-establishment but he's now as apart of it as anyone else (MTV, movies, major record companies). Frank uses examples of figures like Martin Luther King Jr. appearing in a commercial for a bank. Madonna is often hailed as the ultimate kitschy post-modern figure in this regard (see how she's co-opted Che Guevera's image for the new album).

The movie "Fight Club" mocked consumerism as well: a few humorous criticisms about how future planets will be named after corporations (baseball stadiums already are) and understanding how a certain ying-yang table (or whatever) "defines me as a person."

But the movie stars mocked themselves: Ed Norton turns to Brad Pitt on a bus and pointing to an advertisement of nearly nude dude asks, "is that what a man is supposed to look like?" Tyler Durden (Pitt) says (I think) that "self-improvement is masturbation" (or whatever), but of course this image of a chisled body is exactly what he's known for; same applies to a monologue where he says "we're not going to become rich movie stars." Of course he is a rich movie star fucking Jennifer Aniston).

Yes, kids in high school worked shitty jobs to purchase all the accoutrements of an egoistic, market-dictated society. You need to be able to buy the newest shoes, clothes, CDs, go to movies, take girls out, and pay for car insurance. Middle-class parents on a budget will provide nearly all of these things, of course, but since they're on a budget you'll probably get off-brand (and not everything your burning heart wants). You won't get that video-game the day it comes out. Or in the case of cars and car insurance some parents tell their kids to get a job in order o demonstrate "personal responsibility" (there's very little emphasis on social responsibility, at least where I grew up. People joined clubs and performed community service only because of how good it looks on their college application).

The SUV, mentioned earlier, is still another example. Most people have no use whatsoever for a Hummer, especially in Southern California where I live, but many, many yuppies drive them. These automobiles are conflated with "individuality" (because public transportation is "collectivist"), and any kind of regulation viewed as a threat to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Never mind that they pollute the air and endanger lives. People who drive them frequently site one of their main concerns: if I get in an accident, I want the other guy to die.

[brett]

... need to be able to buy the newest shoes, clothes, CDs, go to movies, take girls out, and pay for car insurance.

Booyea :) It's all about the ladies. Personally, I work so I can afford my own stuff, because although my parents live comfortably, they don't give me shit-all. Sure, they bought my car insurance.. But I'm paying if off monthly.

[Tripwire]

btw, i would like to note that spending money is a GOOD thing. $1 is roughly $20 because it is theorectically exchanged to 20 other people before it gets back to you (aka, you buy crap, other people buy crap with the money you gave them, and so on...)

Spending also drives inovation because lots and lots of people want YOUR money! The newer and more interesting a product appears to be, the more likely you will by it.


Just a note for agent: I am a simplistic person. Best example is my car. I didn't get a car until 2 months ago (23.5 years old) and it's a 1986 volvo. The car is butt ugly in appearance, but the interior and engine are in perfect condition. Plus i got a trailer hitch for it so whenever I have to move big/heavy stuff, I can just get a trailer for $20. I just don't see the need for a SUV or truck.

[DarKCroW]

I got a job so i could get experience in the work place. I mean you can't just get a good job right out of college without any previous work experience.

I also got a job so i can pay for a car and insurance. I want to buy things i want such as a new tv and video games. :)

[Acharne]

Originally posted by OuTaKeR
I remember learning in my American history/literature class about the three values of Americans: Conformity, Materialism, and Individualism (I think these are it, correct me if I'm wrong).

Materialism has always been part of the American culture, always wanting more, newer STUFF. I guess teens that have jobs show this value just because they have a job.

conformity is kinda scoffed upon here (at least from what i've expierenced)... and comformity and individualism seem to contradict to me (am i missing something?)

anyways, americans have jobs so they can buy crap. easy as that. i want crap, not the same crap anyone else wants, but my own crap. whereas some people will buys clothes and crap, i will buy stuff for my computer and crap. easy as that.

to sum it up: we have jobs because we want crap. except me. i have no job. i'm a bum. i also want crap, but i get less crap, because i'm a bum. =(

umm.. yah, i'mma go sleep now :P

edit: i have maybe 5 pairs of pants (would be less but i hate washing them and so does my family), one pair of shoes that i actually wear (also a pair of dressier shoes), and a lot of t-shirts.. i love the t-shirts :P

[crz]

ze, the funny thing is that europeans are starting to mock americans. look at musical culture, most rap identifies with american dress/sound etc, watch the video by dj tomekk kurupt and some others, they sing about being a 1920's american gangster in german. people in europe have started buying suv's etc. every kid here in germany has a cell phone and youre not cool if you dont. european kids are becoming slowly americanized if you think about it.

Save the dutch please though.

Teenagers are just trying to prepare themselves for what they're going to run in to in the future.

[AGT-WildBillGates]

I used my job to buy conservative mutal funds(why high risk when im only 18?) while the market is down. I dont want to work till im 67. Social security will be spent at the casino if everything works out. Pay yourself first guys you dont need that more expensive new cool thing.

I could talk for hours about how we spend ourselves stupid but would it get anywhere? Also if you guys are really looking into kids and jobs and why they have them you should check out a video I saw in school called "merchants of cool" it talks about how and why there is always a new cool thing that you have to buy.

[Moniker]

I think the problem is most teenagers tend to spend their money on small things that are pretty much disposable after a few years. This includes clothes, CD's, shoes, and the like.

I'm not really that materalistic, at least in my opinion. I think this evidence stems that about 99.9% of all the clothes I own either came from a relative or someone bought for me. Most of my money goes towards computers and musical equipment now.

I used my job to buy conservative mutal funds(why high risk when im only 18?) while the market is down. I dont want to work till im 67. I suppose I should probably do that too... but I don't know how far 1500 would get.

[agent_ze]

Merchants of cool was exactly the program I saw on tv.

Crz, kids are getting more consumerist everyday in Portugal as well, but it doesn't reach the same proportions it does in the USA.

Let's say kids work because they need to pay for the insurance. Do they need a car at 16 in the first place?

[crz]

Originally posted by agent_ze
Crz, kids are getting more consumerist everyday in Portugal as well, but it doesn't reach the same proportions it does in the USA.

Let's say kids work because they need to pay for the insurance. Do they need a car at 16 in the first place?

the US has far worse public transportation than europe. most kids over there do need cars. they dont have a national train system so they have to fly or drive (the bus system isnt that big over there either). many large cities in the us are just now getting things comparable to the u-bahn and more still have crappy bus systems that are perpetually in debt from lack of use.

[scopes]

Hmm. I must be the opposite of what is portrayed. :P I have one pair of shoes, 3-4 pairs of shorts, am supported by an upper-middle class family that pays for everything I own. I've worked 4 months of my life (movie theater) and made one thousand on my own, but I usually spend it on going out to eat (taking out gf). I have my own car, computer, cell phone, etc. I suppose...I'm more interested in what technology I have than how I look. :thinks:

Anyway, alot of kids have a job (not all do..).. mostly supported by the fast food restaurant chains.. think Fast Times at Ridgemont High (I think thats the name of it..) But not all kids neeeed cars. I've seen so many people who have a car to drive them to work, and go to work to pay for their car. Which leaves them little to no time to do anything else :P

[Cain]

Agent_ze: you're from Portugal? Rad. (not enough people say "rad" these days.) My great-grandparents emigrated from Porturgal to the States, and my mother claims (I'm looking for confirmation or disconfirmation on this) that my sarcastic brand of humor and pitiful fashion sensibilities are directly attributable to "Portugese blood." I responded rather crudely, asking if she was drunk yet again -- part of her Irish heritage.

[BluRRPy]

but of course this image of a chisled body is exactly what he's known for
I thought he was known for being one of the greatest actors of the last decade starring in some of the best movies i've ever seen.

Yes I understand how the whole scene was ironic to say the least (and hypocritical to say the worst) but a great body is NOT what Pitt is "known for." (wow i'm arguing about Brad Pitt's body, I feel so... homosexual :()

[Tripwire]

Originally posted by agent_ze
Merchants of cool was exactly the program I saw on tv.

Crz, kids are getting more consumerist everyday in Portugal as well, but it doesn't reach the same proportions it does in the USA.

Let's say kids work because they need to pay for the insurance. Do they need a car at 16 in the first place?


believe it or not agent_ze, but american is way less dense than Portugal. I drove everyday to high school, but that's because it was 20 miles from home. But I did carpool with others.

[agent_ze]

Cain we have more of a Dirty type of humour than a sarcastic one:p

[Cain]

I thought he was known for being one of the greatest actors of the last decade starring in some of the best movies i've ever seen.

Are you being sarcastic? :)No, seriously, are you being sarcastic?

Yes I understand how the whole scene was ironic to say the least (and hypocritical to say the worst) but a great body is NOT what Pitt is "known for." (wow i'm arguing about Brad Pitt's body, I feel so... homosexual

He's a good actor ("12 Monkeys"). But remember he got his "break" in "Thelma and Louise", and in my opinion, he has been in none of the best movies of the last decade.

[ethEreal]

Come on, surely you enjoyed Snatch :D

[BluRRPy]

From IMDB, all within the last 10 years:

ocean's eleven
snatch
fight club
meet joe black
seven years in tibet
sleepers
12 monkeys
se7en
interview with a vampire (ok I didn't even like this one but that's hardly the point)

Maybe not the best movies of the last decade, but certainly not Vin Diesel type roles. He's played a variety of characters and has played them all perfectly, and to me he's a really amazing actor.

Same goes for Ed Norton, to a lesser extent.

Anyway, yes I agree with your post, but it still stands that Brad Pitt and Ed Norton are two of the many talented actors out there that can do more than just play a single role that they made their "break" with, and it has nothing to do with a "chiseled body."

[Cain]

Anyway, yes I agree with your post, but it still stands that Brad Pitt and Ed Norton are two of the many talented actors out there that can do more than just play a single role that they made their "break" with, and it has nothing to do with a "chiseled body."

Now what does Norton have to do with anything?

I'll admit that I might be under false impressions, fine. Again, I said, "but of course this image of a chis[e]led body is exactly what he's known for." Go ahead and perform a google search for all the sites hailing Pitt's acting talents (versus his status as a male sex symbol). I wonder where he turns up on People's 50 best actors. None of this negates his talents of course. I only said that the film poked fun at his image.

As for Vin Diesel (that's another one out of left-field with Norton), I can name "Boiler Room," "Saving Private Ryan" (which I didn't like), and "Triple X" to his credit. A lot of those Pitt movies fucking suck. Meet Joe Black? Seven Years in Tibet? The Devil's Own (I think he's even on record saying this movie sucked)?? I liked IwaV, Seven, and 12 Monkeys... but we're drifting off topic...

[BluRRPy]

Considering the topic is "Consumism in youg people" I'd like to stay off it, tyvm.

[RogueCheddar]

Originally posted by Cain
Yes, kids in high school worked shitty jobs to purchase all the accoutrements of an egoistic, market-dictated society. You need to be able to buy the newest shoes, clothes, CDs, go to movies, take girls out, and pay for car insurance. Middle-class parents on a budget will provide nearly all of these things, of course, but since they're on a budget you'll probably get off-brand (and not everything your burning heart wants). You won't get that video-game the day it comes out. Or in the case of cars and car insurance some parents tell their kids to get a job in order o demonstrate "personal responsibility" (there's very little emphasis on social responsibility, at least where I grew up. People joined clubs and performed community service only because of how good it looks on their college application).

Cain, that's a blanket statement that is entirely misconceived.

My parents (middle class) hardly buy anything for me but necessities. I have internet access and television because they wanted it, and I'm priviledged enough to share it. Since I prefer indulging myself in other activities besides twiddling my thumbs or wathcing overrated television, I work a job to fund them. I pay for my computer, car repairs (NOT CHEAP!), and small forms of entertainment (e.g. paintball).

Do I need a car? Yes. I would not ever consider it a frivolous purchase. My parents extremely dislike taking me anywhere, and my only other option is to walk miles and miles (literally) to get anywhere. Don't formulate the idea that I'm lazy and don't like getting a little excercise. Walking isn't horrible itself, but throw in extreme distances, 105 degree weather and a highway and it becomes less appealing.

I own one pair of jeans, three pairs of shorts, one pair of shoes, a handfull of good shirts, and two hats. Oh, the consumism!
:rolleyes:

[Cain]

Cain, that's a blanket statement that is entirely misconceived.

Of course I never intended my post to apply to everyone everywhere for all times.

My parents (middle class) hardly buy anything for me but necessities. I have internet access and television because they wanted it, and I'm priviledged enough to share it.

I do not understand that last part about sharing, but stand back and think about what you've said from an international perspective, because, after all, we are trying to think about this from outside our own bubble. More than 50% of the world's population has never so much as made a phone-call, so talk about the "necessity" of Internet access seems misguided (though I'd agree that in our own self-absorbed context it's perfectly fine, normal). It's practically a necessity in our environment.

Since I prefer indulging myself in other activities besides twiddling my thumbs or wathcing overrated television, I work a job to fund them. I pay for my computer, car repairs (NOT CHEAP!), and small forms of entertainment (e.g. paintball).

I fail to see how this contradicts my statements. Or later on when you describe what clothes you own. Some people consume clothes, movies, and CDs. Others might spend their money on car speakers or graphics cards (a person's graphics card does not project coolness, obviously. It sits at home inside a box. Then again, kids really into their computers do not project the "coolness" discussed and they might be socially marginalized).

The central question, I think, is this: Are our consumption habits an expression of our personality, or do we define our personality (and others) by what they consume? A bit of both? Pretentious, but true, movie quote: "the things you own end up owning you."

Since I prefer indulging myself in other activities besides twiddling my thumbs or wathcing overrated television, I work a job to fund them. I pay for my computer, car repairs (NOT CHEAP!), and small forms of entertainment (e.g. paintball).

Fine, whatever. Those are not very commercialized activities, or if they are I wouldn't know. I've never purchased a graphics card or gone paintballing.

Do I need a car? Yes. I would not ever consider it a frivolous purchase. My parents extremely dislike taking me anywhere, and my only other option is to walk miles and miles (literally) to get anywhere. Don't formulate the idea that I'm lazy and don't like getting a little excercise. Walking isn't horrible itself, but throw in extreme distances, 105 degree weather and a highway and it becomes less appealing.

Wait a second. I think the original post probed the question why a kid in high school would need a car. Now maybe you need a car to get to work. But why does a kid in high school need to work? To finance paintball, car repairs, a computer and other forms of entertainment? Most of the rest of the world isn't as dependent on automobiles for transportation as we are. Hell, I live in Southern California where an automobile is a necessity, but Mommy and Daddy didn't buy my car until I had to go off to college. (I'm as over-privileged as anyone.) But I have a friend in Finland who relies on public transportation. He says he might need a car three or four times in an entire year, and just borrows his dad's.

I own one pair of jeans, three pairs of shorts, one pair of shoes, a handfull of good shirts, and two hats. Oh, the consumism!

Consumption habits differ person to person. I focused primarily on clothing because it's only the most obviously visible expression of consumerism.

How many Coke or Pepsi commercials have you seen today? Has Coke or Pepsi changed in the last few days in a way that we should know about? Are these commercials informing consumers in a meaningful way? Of course not. They're just reassuring you that the soft-drink you consume is still cool.

[agent_ze]

Originally posted by Cain
[B]Of course I never intended my post to apply to everyone everywhere for all times.

Exactly.

But I have a friend in Finland who relies on public transportation. He says he might need a car three or four times in an entire year, and just borrows his dad's.

And that's why Europe is inconmensurably superior


:p

[Moniker]

And that's why Europe is inconmensurably superior Oh sure, you say that now, but wait for the King of England to barge into your home and start pushing you around. Then you'll think differently.

[Famine-]

We have better Television programming. More to see, more to want, more to buy.

[Omega Nine]

Drugs cost money.

[NappyK]

First you get the sugar, then you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women...

Actually, we're just very materialistic around here. I personally am a clothes whore. I'm 17, but I have over 6 pairs of shoes, and I don't even want to get started on clothes. Then again it all depends on your style. Some of my friends will go out in tattered rags, I however have a little more pride. I always do my hair, and put on whatever is appropriate for the occasion. Anyways, I don't mean to change the topic.

Yeah, so for me I'd have to say that I work so that I can afford to take care of myself, and to spoil my girlfriend, lol.

Originally posted by ethEreal
Different cultures. American society is founded on the premise, "Life, Liberty, and Property."

heh, too bad thats the French. All we got this "persuit of happiness" BS.

[Corsair]

Originally posted by realy
heh, too bad thats the French. All we got this "persuit of happiness" BS.

Buying new toys makes people happy. Haven't you ever celebrated christmas? :)

[snaggle]

Originally posted by Moniker
Oh sure, you say that now, but wait for the King of England to barge into your home and start pushing you around. Then you'll think differently.

It's a Queen...and she has no power. It's a figurehead Monarchy...they have no power over governmental goings-on.

[Defrag]

I'm hoping you're playing along with the Simpsons quote :p