TFL Playoffs: why not lowgrens? :(

[Paragon]

I guess the topic says it all... Why are we still playing openfire_l in leagues? Maybe in pubs it's debatable because we all like to spam a little and have some fun, but having that many grenades in a full match with reasonably skilled people is ridiculous imo.

I guess this has been discussed before, but what are everyone's thoughts for ofire_l and ofire_lowgrens, considering it's 9v9? I was depressed and whimpering a little when I saw the map choice, but maybe I'm alone.. at least in the openly crying department.

I'm not in TFL, but having 2 less concs sucks ass and I hate lowgrens and no one should play it ever

someone needs to make an openfire mod where the packs give concs and normal grenades only

[FainRaVen]

!!!!! y not openfire_lowgrens 8v8 !!!!!!!!!!!!! i gess i been playing to much euro. but yes ofire should be 8v8.

RA| FainRaVen .t5-]N[
[-RvR-] FainRaVen

[Paragon]

I'll agree with that point immediately... Probably my main complaint with lowgrens is the lack of concs for offense. However, I'm willing to sacrifice so the greater of the evils (imo) can be removed :o

8v8 it and enforce 4 D.

2 concs is bullshit.

1!

[Cornpops]

lowgrens 8vs8 makes for a better game 9 out of 10 times :)

[Ep.]

Play it 4v4. Why bother with defense at all. Why is any form of Openfire still played in leagues.

[ZeusofIowa]

Definitley low grens.

I only played 8v8 lowgrens once so maybe people play 4/4, but I think all but one or two of the 8v8 openfire_l games I've played (and that's quite a few) have been 5d/3o and not too fun compared to 9v9

[evo]

Originally posted by billdoor
I only played 8v8 lowgrens once so maybe people play 4/4, but I think all but one or two of the 8v8 openfire_l games I've played (and that's quite a few) have been 5d/3o and not too fun compared to 9v9

I've played 4-5 euro matches/"friendlies" on openfire_lowgrens, and all of them were 5D against 3O. It's best just to play lowgrens 9v9 rather then openfire_l 8v8/9v9, but hopefully someone will make a remake of lowgrens where the bags / spawn exit gives full concs.

[Eckspurt]

What they should do, is not play openfire_l at all. Look at how many problems that solves.

[PowerSurge]

Openfire_l 9v9 owns, nuff said.

Oh, and we are playing it ONE (1) TIME, so relax, sheesh.

If you don't wanna play it, then there is always the bench, something I see a little too often, LoL

[[HCA]SonGoku]

Why is it the offenses in TFC always ones crying, you dont hear defenses crying!

[Watchman]

you dont?

[[HCA]SonGoku]

No we don't in the history of TFC what have we complained about? Even in bhop era not many defenses bitches, offenses who had advantage from it bitched that bhop'ing made it easier for defenses to get back to position quicker. Almost every change in league TFC is made from offenses bitching and whining :

hwg limit
bhoping (during its era)
max defenses
sportsmanship (bitching about being potshooted and so forth and chased)

Lets face it folks the majority of the changes in TFC made by leagues where made to make it easier for the offenses of TFC clans to score.

[mulisha]

Have you ever tried playing offense while being potshotted, and against more than 5 D?

defense cried up a storm about chop hopping goku... "OH OH ITS TOO HARD FOR ME TO HIT GUYS MOVING IN A STRAIGHT LINE"

[bok]

Originally posted by TFC Server Guru
Why is it the offenses in TFC always ones crying, you dont hear defenses crying!

Maybe because this time it's the offense losing concs eh?:rolleyes:

Whoopity freakin do you lose some normal grenades but you still have your ac,rl,pl, and sg. Most O players have a ssg.

[(!)-DrLove]

anything that makes it harder to capture the enemies flag should be illegal. i think i should be given clear passage in and out of flagroom and i wont stop bitching until this rule is put into place in ALL leagues.

[PHISH]

You lose your Manziere or something?

[astralCow]

Originally posted by TFC Server Guru
No we don't in the history of TFC what have we complained about? Even in bhop era not many defenses bitches

Good lord, did you read the Catacombs back then? Or is this just a selective history sort of thing?

[FryGuy]

offense complaining about bhop? what?

[Bad Luck]

why not delete openfire from every computer in the world so that it will never be seen again

[HooK]

Originally posted by billdoor
defense cried up a storm about chop hopping goku... "OH OH ITS TOO HARD FOR ME TO HIT GUYS MOVING IN A STRAIGHT LINE"

haha,

lowgrens 8v8 would be much better so what if u have 2 less concs, big fucking deal, you'll have to run out of your own base instead of the 8 concs that you do to get out normally. And yes, i play offense

[Sleepy Mexican]

People, stop flaming offense wanting to have it a little easier. 4v5 is tough with 2 teams of equal skill. Potshotting makes it harder. Gay ass things like custom tracers, all that anti-conc BS, gren-spawn-gren, spawn-whoring, all of this is bad for offense. 20-10 matches aren't exciting. A lot of scripts are being made for defense, a helluva lot more than offenses. Now defense gets a teleporter. Don't you guys see you have it made...YOU outnumber them, YOU have a respawn, YOU have 4 other teammates taking some health away from them, YOU are the ones with the scripts, then you complain when offense says "Lets try 8v8"

[Influx-OD]

if it is 8v8 i think regular openfire should beplayed and if its 9v9 then lowgrens. but 8v8 and lowgrens will imo be a capfest. and i do agree with goku about most of the stuff he said.

[[TDA]Jiggles]

2 Concs are plenty for Ofire

[GhOsT]

Originally posted by Sleepy Mexican
People, stop flaming offense wanting to have it a little easier. 4v5 is tough with 2 teams of equal skill. Potshotting makes it harder. Gay ass things like custom tracers, all that anti-conc BS, gren-spawn-gren, spawn-whoring, all of this is bad for offense. 20-10 matches aren't exciting. A lot of scripts are being made for defense, a helluva lot more than offenses. Now defense gets a teleporter. Don't you guys see you have it made...YOU outnumber them, YOU have a respawn, YOU have 4 other teammates taking some health away from them, YOU are the ones with the scripts, then you complain when offense says "Lets try 8v8"

lol, no defenses do not have a teleporter yet. And if and when the next patch comes out, i doubt the teleporter will be much use to them.

[nightwolf]

Originally posted by FryGuy
offense complaining about bhop? what?

i believe it was defense that complained about it simply because there was no cap we could bhop past your sg's w/out getting shot once offense loved it so stfu goku

[nightwolf]

Originally posted by [TDA]Jiggles
2 Concs are plenty for Ofire


and what openfire do you play sir?

[[HCA]SonGoku]

And please don't bring in clan votes on leagues cause only like 65% of clans vote when theres a poll or whatnot. Bhop could go both ways, because I remember playing during bhop and being bitched at cause I would die and then I'd be back in 2 seconds to position, hell I remember in upper tier of TFC forgot who played CNBL but some clan bitched their heart out because Gup20 got to position faster using bhop.

There still more league rules due to offensive whining then defensive. But what can you expect when your a league admin who lets the clans rule instead of just putting your foot down and letting tfc be tfc. Maybe my co-workers where right when they told me yesterday

"didn't TFC die 2 years ago man?"

[dexy]

low grens yaya

[Defrag]

Who cares about the extra conc? If you played with full team damage (which I can't really see why you shouldn't... all half TK promotes is spam) you'd never pick up a pack while priming anyway, 'cause you'd conc your defence... thus making the extra conc thing a tiny gripe at best - 2 concs is plenty to get about on openfire, and considering the benefit O gets on openfire_lowgrens (no more constant nails / mirvs spam at FD / water) it's a small price to pay. I've always liked openfire to a degree, but before lowgrens was introduced in europe it was a chore to play because clans just SPAMSPAMSPAMed, and NA is even worse on that map for spamming (same goes for us on maps we play more, clans eventually get the spam down to such a fine degree that no grens are 'wasted' -- check out a good european 2fort defence, you can't move for grenades).

Actually, the majority of maps shouldn't have max grens on spawn ... just playing trench against CoS made me want to vomit -- they weren't particularly spammy but the map is so grenade based it becomes a frenzy of gren key mashing, it wasn't even worth trying to kill anything with ssg, just hide around a corner and lob 3 grens one after the other at their defence while showing off your mad skills.. yeah that's what TFC is all about.

Even oppose (having played vindicate relatively recently on it), despite being very roomy, is abused spam-wise -- stick (and I bet Iceman) just picked the gren pack up, threw 3 unprimed grens onto the shoop exit, dropped to the RR spammed the rest and then suicided for more grens. YEAH MAN IT MAKES ME WANT TO PLAY ALL DAY.

Low grens = more skill, end of story. I'd rather players spent their time learning to aim a weapon rather than figuring out how fast (and where) they should spam their grenades for the optimum effect...

Originally posted by Defrag
Who cares about the extra conc? If you played with full team damage (which I can't really see why you shouldn't... all half TK promotes is spam) you'd never pick up a pack while priming anyway, 'cause you'd conc your defence...

shit maybe that's why rebo yells at me so much when we play that map

[Perm]

I can't believe anyony who plays offense would support _l. Yeah, you'll get 7 grenades every time (8 if you prime) as a medic, but what good is that going to do you when you eat a mirv or other random spam every other run?

I played in an openfire_l 9v9 pickup yesterday.. I literally had to leave because it was not fun (no it wasn't because we were losing, we were winning).

Anyway, 9v9 openfire is just not that fun really... it's not played in leagues all that much anymore, so some people have romanticized views of concing around in glory while taking home a cap. No, the reality is you're not going anywhere but into a sea of spam.

Perm

[GhOsT]

Originally posted by TFC Server Guru
And please don't bring in clan votes on leagues cause only like 65% of clans vote when theres a poll or whatnot.

It's the other 35%'s choice not to vote. If your clan didn't vote in a poll bitch out your leader.

[RebbeL]

Originally posted by Defrag
Who cares about the extra conc? If you played with full team damage (which I can't really see why you shouldn't... all half TK promotes is spam) you'd never pick up a pack while priming anyway, 'cause you'd conc your defence... thus making the extra conc thing a tiny gripe at best - 2 concs is plenty to get about on openfire, and considering the benefit O gets on openfire_lowgrens (no more constant nails / mirvs spam at FD / water) it's a small price to pay. I've always liked openfire to a degree, but before lowgrens was introduced in europe it was a chore to play because clans just SPAMSPAMSPAMed, and NA is even worse on that map for spamming (same goes for us on maps we play more, clans eventually get the spam down to such a fine degree that no grens are 'wasted' -- check out a good european 2fort defence, you can't move for grenades).

Actually, the majority of maps shouldn't have max grens on spawn ... just playing trench against CoS made me want to vomit -- they weren't particularly spammy but the map is so grenade based it becomes a frenzy of gren key mashing, it wasn't even worth trying to kill anything with ssg, just hide around a corner and lob 3 grens one after the other at their defence while showing off your mad skills.. yeah that's what TFC is all about.

Even oppose (having played vindicate relatively recently on it), despite being very roomy, is abused spam-wise -- stick (and I bet Iceman) just picked the gren pack up, threw 3 unprimed grens onto the shoop exit, dropped to the RR spammed the rest and then suicided for more grens. YEAH MAN IT MAKES ME WANT TO PLAY ALL DAY.

Low grens = more skill, end of story. I'd rather players spent their time learning to aim a weapon rather than figuring out how fast (and where) they should spam their grenades for the optimum effect...

preach it rev. defrag :cool:

lowgrens is cool because the offense can't just do 4 concs around the base and get out with the flag without even DM'ing the defense or looking at them.

[Paragon]

Wow I should do a before and after poll. I can't believe I was debating to myself what I preferred... After TFL tonight it was painfully clear that openfire_highgrens should be banned from league play, honestly. Can other people with the memory still fresh in their minds seriously say they enjoyed so much spam?

[spin]

Originally posted by Bad Luck
why not delete openfire from every computer in the world so that it will never be seen again
werd to that brutha

[PHISH]

TDA and 404 agreed to openfire_lowgrens beforehand, was quite a fun match, much more enjoyable imo, at least on defense for me.

[evo]

Make a thread about how much better it would be to have full TK in US TFC ;D

[tehCheese]

Paragon ur gay .....................................LOL















:o o:

[pyrocat]

wow, whats next low weapons?

[Cavalier]

i would rather see leagues even out the divisions than change all the maps making them easier for O or D.