My Plea to TFC League Admins

[[HCA]SonGoku]

Dear Gemini, bona, Bluefire, and UGC Guy

In our leagues we have rules. Rules that are meant to maintain the balance of TFC as a whole. Although many people and many clans in TFC do not agree with some rules they are there to be upheld and enforced. Throughout the yeras I have seen the changes in rules. Changes to adjust to our style of life in TFC. My problem is we are now facing many problems in TFC, and you as admins are putting up rules which can not be enforced. And that in my view and the view of probably many other TFC'ers this is unacceptable.

We say that requiring first person demos can help, but can you really keep track and carefully watch the demo of every TFC player in your league? Sure some cheaters in the past have been so blatant that you only have to watch it once. But with only a limited number of admins how can you expect to keep the peace in TFC. A code of honor? In my opinion, true honor was lost in TFC a while ago.

My plea is for the leagues of TFC for ONE MONTH, try out sparkyv2. You have commands such as cl_lw 0, force_centerview, many cvar commands, ex commands, fullupdate and so forth. But how have you been doing in actually enforcing the use of these commands? With sparkyv2 you can at least enforce your rules instead of having many clan players use them in match unnoticed. You might not trust ruiner that is fine. But give it a chance just to see the result of it.

Now that CPL is here and many clans will be off probably, not sure, take the time to consider this please.

[Melt]

Open source and get ruiner's hands off it. then maybe.

[ReEn]

lol melt

[Meltdown]

im with my evil twin on this one

[SilentDark]

No.

Sparky kills the speedcap. Or at least it does on the farms. Go over 170% and it keeps u at 169% instead of kicking you down to 110%

[L0ki]

it would be a great idea, except that even sparky2 can't stop things like ex_interp :(

[unix_yoda]

Originally posted by turbo
If Ruiner fixes the ping and CPU usage issues i'd be for it. Untill i can see that at least 200 random players can correctly ping to a server(having similar pings in both) with and without the sparky, i'd say fuck yea. Untill then, just wait for the patch to fix it(we've heard that before o_O)

what ping/cpu load issues? evidence is needed to look into these things and find out what's going on.


Originally posted by melt
Open source and get ruiner's hands off it. then maybe.

why opensource, so it's easier for people to find a way around it? it's open enough, fire up a packet sniffer and a few debuggers, you can find out what the programs doing... if you think he might "slide in a change" or something, find a nice stable version, check it out, and only use it.

i agree with goku, i'd LOVE to see it implemented in leagues.

[Kaneda]

Originally posted by unix_yoda
what ping/cpu load issues? evidence is needed to look into these things and find out what's going on.


Go look at PF1 and PF2... there is your ping issue.

I went from 30 to the NJ one to 120 IF IM LUCKY.

As nice as it is, it really makes it a lot harder to HH conc unless you play there everyday and work on the timing.

[Defrag]

Shrug, sparky's runs on a lot of european servers (mainly BF ones) and I've yet to see any problems (for me at least) although I have been told that lower bandwidth players have complained (well, one of them...)

[spin]

i think this would be great. some leagues have rules that ban ex_interp, ect. and have no way of enforcing it.

[SilentDark]

^^^^^^^^ tru tru tru

and doesnt anyone else care about the speedcap being fucked?

[-Wolvy-pb]

We say that requiring first person demos can help, but can you really keep track and carefully watch the demo of every TFC player in your league?

You'd be surprized at what leagues(STA) will catch.

[DUGAN]

Originally posted by TFC Server Guru
and UGC Guy

That would be me.

There are arguements for and against its use:

1. Yes, it was made by a hacker. However, he helped make the client sparkys which is allowed in leagues and is even used by leagues to find wallhackers and exploit users.

2. It is closed source, how can we trust it? What if it was open source? Then we could have people easily editing it to their advantage.

3. There are too many restrictions in TFC now... what happened to having fun? Wouldn't it be more fun to play without exploiters?

So, I'll talk this over with my admins. However, it would be nice for Ruiner to have a discussion with us (league admins) personally concerning the actions the program does and how it can be properly implemented in leagues.

Otherwise, I don't see this poll going anywhere :(

[Melt]

Originally posted by unix_yoda
what ping/cpu load issues? evidence is needed to look into these things and find out what's going on.




why opensource, so it's easier for people to find a way around it? it's open enough, fire up a packet sniffer and a few debuggers, you can find out what the programs doing... if you think he might "slide in a change" or something, find a nice stable version, check it out, and only use it.

i agree with goku, i'd LOVE to see it implemented in leagues.
Because for one fact. Ruiner is a known hacker. As i have said in the past, If he is willing to hack in an online game he is capable of much worse. Let alone he knows how to code.

[L0ki]

GG paranoia bandwagon.

[NukemsEvilTwin]

Originally posted by Meltdown
im with my evil twin on this one

eh?

[Sorrit]

I'm really hoping that this doesn't go through. I'd rather not have yet another thing to throw on my server, make sure is working right, etc etc. It's a damn game. I just want to play.

Edit: Oh yea, this discussion was going on in the STA cpt forums. Not sure about TFL forums, because they never gave us access. Go figure.

[Melt]

Originally posted by Meltdown
im with my evil twin on this one

Why I gotta be the evil one :)

And hi Reen :D

[[SSK]Nemesis]

Sparky kills the speedcap. Or at least it does on the farms. Go over 170% and it keeps u at 169% instead of kicking you down to 110% thats a setting u newb
was configged like that on 187 server for a while as well but its back to normal now

[|RES|Entreri]

The end of the world must be near...I actually agree with Goku on this.

I also trust Ruiner on this project.

Mr. UGC guy :D,

Many admins approached me and had zillions questions about this project. I've responded to all their questions and even added certain features on request of certain leagues. So, if you have any questions I would be more than happy to answer you. I hang in #sparky, #konspiracy etc..

To the others who say sparky lags, It was noted by pointblank admins that their network lagged and the problem was not related to sparky v2.

I'd also like to point you at http://sparky.konspiracy.org/server/servers.php where you can see a list of roughly 40 servers running Sparky v2 with no problems. You're mentionning all farms too, but only PF1 is using it.

Now the "open source" part, well.. Even if it was open source, I could squeeze things in before release. So, if you don't trust me now, you will never do. Your only option is to decompile the dll and see what it does.

I too would love to see sparky implemented, but I'm not really pushing it. I'm just tired of people shooting me through explosions when I can't see them and getting killed by hw's when I'm 5 miles from them.. gg interp :\

And L0ki, it's possible to use a different interp than the one required by sparky, but then you'd need to cheat to do it, so you'd be cheating anyways.

*edit* I just sent the source to billdoor so we may work a bit on this together, hopefully this will make some people happy that an STA admin has access to the source..

[Naufragus]

Too many things need to be fixed.

Make it open source and you have my vote. If its still closed source then no way in hell.

I think we need to have seperate votes for each division on some of these rules more than we need some laggy plug-in to enforce them.

I do have one question about force_centerview. I know its illegal to spam the command as a way of locking your axis, but is it illegal to use it once while conced? I've used this method before as a spot to lead conc aim from and would like to know if its legal for me to use in STA.

Originally posted by realy
Make it open source and you have my vote. If its still closed source then no way in hell.

I think we need to have seperate votes for each division on some of these rules more than we need some laggy plug-in to enforce them.billdoor has access to the source and it will not be open source. You have another misconception, the plugin doesn't produce lag. The problems you are experiencing on phat farms is not related to sparky.

Originally posted by realy
Make it open source and you have my vote. If its still closed source then no way in hell.

I think we need to have seperate votes for each division on some of these rules more than we need some laggy plug-in to enforce them.

I do have one question about force_centerview. I know its illegal to spam the command as a way of locking your axis, but is it illegal to use it once while conced? I've used this method before as a spot to lead conc aim from and would like to know if its legal for me to use in STA.

you're using an illegal command to concaim? hmmm. i wonder if that would be legal...........

[Vanquish]

Originally posted by Melt
Because for one fact. Ruiner is a known hacker. As i have said in the past, If he is willing to hack in an online game he is capable of much worse. Let alone he knows how to code.

Someone's got a nasty case of George Bush Syndrome, next thing you know you'll be invading Canada to get 'oust Ruiner from power because he poses a clear and present danger to US security', then when you can't find him you'll say your goal all along was to 'liberate the Canadian people from his tyranny'......

[Cavalier]

don't make it open source then it would be as well as useless, but i've only played on one server with sparkies2 and cannot say i was lagged.

[TeleFragged]

The people that voted no are hackers...thus we should track their IPs and ban them, :)

But seriously. I dont see why you people dont like it. It is a good way to stop many of the annoying hacks in this game. It will also keep people from filing pointless disputes all the time as well. It has been proven it does not lag any of the servers. Sure it isn't opensource and I understand your concerns. However, he did turn the code over to billdoor to look at and help with it. Personally I think anyone has a good reasont vote no. The reasons they have come up with have been shot down plenty of times...

[Drinks With Evil]

I trust ruiner and id have no problem with it closed source. Maybe admins should do what IGL Qualifier is trying to do. Put an admin in every match that rotates players while playing.

Originally posted by treget
you're using an illegal command to concaim? hmmm. i wonder if that would be legal...........

I always thought it was illegal because of people abusing it to get the same effect as locking your axis. Just a question.

[Vr_]

no way in hell im going to run a program made by a hacker. the day a legit tfc player or gamer makes a decent anticheat i'll use it and support it for leagues.

[PHISH]

Originally posted by |RES|Entreri
The end of the world must be near...I actually agree with Goku on this.

I also trust Ruiner on this project.
Enteri shares my thoughts.
Some terribile misinformation and misconceptions here too, but most of it has been addressed by people who know what they are talking about.

[BlueFire]

I brought this issue up for discussion on the STA forums over a month ago.

Some of the concerns that were brought up:

1.) The idea is very good, but ruiner isn't trustworthy. How can we be sure that he gives us a finished product that doesn't try and harm us in some way?

2.) Server owners will not feel secure with this 3rd-party program running. Not talking about professional rental companies here, but clans who get their servers from their workplace.

3.) Compatability with other leagues. People do not wish to have to put it on and remove it for each league match because one league allows it and another does not.

4.) How do we verify that the version running on a given server is in fact the version that is league approved, and not a hacked / custom / clone replacement job?

5.) The hook seems to lag servers.

6.) The benefits do not seem to outweight the costs.

Now, let me address some of the issues from an admin standpoint.

1.) Ruiner has provided billdoor with the source code. billdoor can then compile the hook and give us an offical STA version, and the hook will be safe at that point.

2.) This is a pretty big concern. IMO, forcing something to be mandatory that is not allowed by ALL server admins/companies is extremely unfair to the clans playing in that league.

3.) Compatability with other leagues is also a big issue. If you forget to disable metamod before the match starts, its quite possible that you could get in trouble with the other leagues.

The other 3 are very good opinons, and I don't seem to have responses for them yet (I have not tested the hook thoroughly enough).

However, I must say that I am very very strongly considering for this tool to be used optionally in STA using an STA config for it. This would allow the clans that push for this tool to be included in STA to use it, while clans that have serious concerns about it would not be forced to use it. Hopefully if I do decide to implement it in this way, other leagues will follow suit with an optional tag on sparkys, and will make it more convinent for clans to use it, therefore making more clans willing to use it.

[PHISH]

silly tfc leagues, by the time they actually do something hl2 will be out

[Melt]

Originally posted by Vanquish
Someone's got a nasty case of George Bush Syndrome, next thing you know you'll be invading Canada to get 'oust Ruiner from power because he poses a clear and present danger to US security', then when you can't find him you'll say your goal all along was to 'liberate the Canadian people from his tyranny'......

That example was... well.. pointless. Ruiner is not in any form or position of power. He just so happens to have been caught for cheating. Nopw let me ask you all this. What if say Massacre came out and said he made an anti cheat program or mod. Would you support him like ruiner? i seriously doubt it. A cheater is a cheater.

you're a cheater yourself, so what is your point?

[Hellsy]

Two threads I'm dying to see in the future:

"WTF DID RUINER DO TO US?!?!"

and

"Sparkies Hacked Website - Or how some hacker decompiled Sparkies and allowed you to set one team's cvars to default and your team exempt"

If we've learned anything about hackers, it's that they'll do whatever they want to whatever we make and whatever we stop they find ways around.

But my fear: Hacked versions of Sparkies running on servers that pretend to be STA friendly.

For instance: A command in the new, advanced version of Sparkies, that allows the admin to set one team's commands to default, and another team, ie, HIS team, to whatever cvars they want.

Either way, myself and my team aren't running this program on my server. Too many issues and too much of a pain in the ass. I'm already running Ringerfree, Hltv, checking WonIDs, and so forth, and recording a personal demo (which sometimes crashes my hl-- sometimes midmatch-- which I do and bare because they're important),

And now I have to make sure that Sparkie's is happy, not lagging us, and the host of other problems that come with server clients (anyone else remember when Admin Mod was +30 ping / +3 choke / + 10 loss for anyone with a low-end system?)


Solution: Wait for the patch, then see if Sparkie's is STILL necessary. <-----------
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Meat]

Originally posted by Sorrit
I'm really hoping that this doesn't go through. I'd rather not have yet another thing to throw on my server, make sure is working right, etc etc. It's a damn game. I just want to play.

Right on the money.

[Perm]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this sparky version be server-side only? I would have to grudgingly admit that I wouldn't want it if I have to download, install, and/or configure something to my tfc. If every player has to do that, that's a big task... if it's just for the server, then I don't see a reason *not* to do this. Euro's have been using something server side only for quite awhile now, and it guarantees no one is interping, etc.

[[HCA]SonGoku]

sparkyv2 IS server-side only we don't have to download anything perm.

it cannot guarantee interp. There are ways around that particular cvar.. but then if someone isn't using default, you know they cheat to achieve that..

and yes, it's server side only.

there won't be hacked versions of sparky, it's closed source - only me and billdoor have the source code.

[Melt]

Originally posted by Ruiner
you're a cheater yourself, so what is your point?

I am? this is news to me. Where do you have that proof or this is just an attempt to distract attention from you. A known cheater.

[Jeronimo]

If WilliamDoor approves it, I'd be more than happpy to ask some 5v5 clans to test it out.

Originally posted by Melt
I am? this is news to me. Where do you have that proof or this is just an attempt to distract attention from you. A known cheater. You've admitted to using ax1 and all other forms of shady little advantages, it's cheating. :rolleyes:

[Defrag]

Ruiner, you should speak to Enora (or get bd to), I believe the etac plugin blocks interp in another way (added to the way in which sparky's currently does)... so it may be possible to add a further check. Can't you log the values people use regardless? (even if they're able to bypass the cvar lock you log the usage.)

[Melt]

Originally posted by Ruiner
You've admitted to using ax1 and all other forms of shady little advantages, it's cheating. :rolleyes:
stretching it aint we. Dont be mad that you are a cheater. I have not admitted using anything that has been banned by leagues( HAve i used ax1 before? Yes it was legal then). I have posed arguments against the constant restricting of tfc. If that makes me a cheater maybe i can join your ranks. No wait.. I can still play in leagues.

[Perm]

Defrag, what do the euro's use? I played in a couple matches and they have something that locks anything it wants I think (at least my teammates told me that)

[rollo]

ppl have to realise that if someone cheats in a game it doesn't make them a bad/evil person... all the ppl thinking that ruiner is out to get them are fucking retarded...

even the goverment hires hackers to help them with security... i would expect a cheat maker to know more about anti-cheat utilites than someone who doesn't...

i'm all for this idea, specially since billdoor also has access to the source code

[Melt]

Originally posted by rollo
ppl have to realise that if someone cheats in a game it doesn't make them a bad/evil person... all the ppl thinking that ruiner is out to get them are fucking retarded...

even the goverment hires hackers to help them with security... i would expect a cheat maker to know more about anti-cheat utilites than someone who doesn't...

i'm all for this idea, specially since billdoor also has access to the source code

Yah, Ok sorry ruiner, This guy made me see the errors of my ways...

[FiReY]

well i'll take a little poll after the box invitational ends because after semi's all servers are to be played on nationhosts servers and are to be running sparkyv2

[NukemsEvilTwin]

Ruiner, we put our foot water on one of our servers, Northern California based .id|Invasion server at 66.237.58.61:27015. Connectivity didnt change in the slightest. We're against hackers and figure it's one more bump for them to hurtle/dodge. #invade-defend or email guildadmins@invadedefend.com if you want anymore feedback.

Most of you are probably too young to remember a decent tv show "It takes a thief". That "It's just a game" arguement works for both sides of the issue.

[Gemini]

Originally posted by Sorrit
I'm really hoping that this doesn't go through. I'd rather not have yet another thing to throw on my server, make sure is working right, etc etc. It's a damn game. I just want to play.

Edit: Oh yea, this discussion was going on in the STA cpt forums. Not sure about TFL forums, because they never gave us access. Go figure.


Every clan leader in TFL is given access to the leaders forum once they join. If you don't have access, you should contact Dolemite or Azlan for the hook up as we have stated many times on our forums and news posts.

And yes, there is a discussion and vote taking place about using sparkies 2 in TFL.

[Vr_]

Originally posted by rollo
ppl have to realise that if someone cheats in a game it doesn't make them a bad/evil person... all the ppl thinking that ruiner is out to get them are fucking retarded...

even the goverment hires hackers to help them with security... i would expect a cheat maker to know more about anti-cheat utilites than someone who doesn't


thats kind of different... theyre actually getting paid by the gov't. and its a lot more cash then what they used to get.
its nice of ruiner to make a anticheat (smirk). but again like i said, until a legit gamer or a decent anti cheat comes along im never going to install something that a cheater came up with.

Originally posted by [SSK]Nemesis
thats a setting u newb
was configged like that on 187 server for a while as well but its back to normal now

u fuckin cock, me and silent dark understand the fact that this setting allows for nublars to _special hop their asses at 169% off a conc or rocketjump.... i long ago developed the skill of landing at 169% off a conc or rocket jump or near it, but still be able to stay under it to maintain my speed.... this sparky crap thing allows everyone to do it, and in my heart i feel this a skill you should acquire and not have some shit a brick ping bombing closed source pos allow everyone to suddenly do it.... i also believe just staying under 169% while bunnyhopping (without rocket jumps concs and shit being shot at you) is a skill in itself....

another thing that pisses me off about the bhop thing is when u rocket or nade someone without sparkyv2 even if they have a hop script if they get hit fast enough it will push them over the cap and force them to 100%, now with sparkyv2 on anyone u hit on phatfarm fuckin flies at 169% no matter what u do unless u juggle or cockblock

this setting is gay and if the leagues use it, its gonna be funny watching nublars move like rent and reen....

i also prefer not to have sparkysv2 up my sierra/halflife/tfc folders ass


edit: ive recently noticed goku has become to "pawn" of ruiner, billdoor, and PB

geeee if massacre was still around we could have prison bitch fights over gokus plump ass

[Gemini]

You seem to be a bit upset K!D, is there anything you might want to talk about, ya know... get off your chest? Talking about your problems makes ya feel a whole lot better!

:D

Even if there was something in sparky that would let someone cheat (like me for example), 99% of the community would still be free of some of the cheats.. :)

And anyway, like I said I don't really care if it's used or not, I wish it was because it would make TFC a lot more fun again for the remaining legit players.

Maybe I cheated once in a match some day 2 years ago, but that's way behind me, some of you are really pathetic of not getting over it already..

Anyhow, again, if anyone has concerns or questions, #sparky I'm always around.

ruiner, u know whats gonna happened... hl2 or some hawt new game is gonna come out and there will always be someone there to follow u and bitch in a forum.... if u hacked i could care less since i havnet played with you, ive known alot of nice hackers... but this community is unforgiving so if u are "nice" its a shame, but u gotta admitt u fucked up and this community doesnt care what u feel about what youve done... good or bad, u gotta admitt is gets shit done...


personally i am neutral about the "issue of ruiner" i do however think people in this community have the right to be suspicious about this whole issue but i dont think he deserves to be flamed and reminded of when hes fucked up... at this point i figure u give him another shot in the leagues... i mean putting up with two years of constant cats harassment is an achievement in itself...

[Glacier]

sparky servers are all like anti HHs, its impossible for me and a lot of other people to conc on them

frankly, i don't think there is an 'issue of ruiner'. nothing can be changed, the fact that he did cheat in a match a long time ago will haunt him for the rest of tfc career as long as people are ignorant. ruiner obviously still loves this game, or at least likes it more then other games, the people, and likes to code. he is taking his abilities and applying them to something we all like and enjoy.

ruiner and sparky2 represents a few big changes in tfc. first off, its the fact that now a days, we are nearly required to implement such third party features such as sparky2 to stop the use of players using petty methods to gain a sometimes very slight advantage over another player. this will always happen in every game, no doubt, but its sad when we have to have a discussion like this about it.

secondly, its the fact that a great majority are obviously still very sore against ruiner and what he did. even if you all did play in the match that he cheated in, only seventeen of you could have something against him. yet, you ignorant people want to burn him at the stake for what he did, just to have a mindset so you can believe that tfc will be cheater free.

what ruiner did will remain here for a long time. you people need to get past the fact that he did screw up. we all make mistakes. what ruiner is trying to do is help us, not hurt us. grow up a little bit people, and stop trying to make ruiner out to something he isn't.

on the fact of sparky2, PB gaming noted that the servers that were running it were having connection problems. numerous other server owners have installed sparky2 with no problems, and no copnneciton issues. its just that the majority of your opinions come from a ill-admined, ill-played server that was having connection problems.

on the otherhand, i personally don't think that we should have to go to the extent that we are now to stop crap like this. i don't like having third party programs on servers. i don't like ringerfree, and i feel that if a team is so maddened by a lose, even more to a loss by a team using a ringer (which in case you didn't realize, one person doesn't make a team, and a ringer often never has practice with the team, and all they really do is fill spots), they need to implement a program like ringerfree. half of the stuff currently banned in the major leagues could be unbanned, and would make the game more interesting. the chop-hop is not a problem to defend against, considering they go in a straight line when they do.

but, since i'm not a 'leader' of my team, even though i do a lot of leading, i can't voice my opinion to the leagues. so, if sparky2 was to be implemented in a league, i'd still play probably because i like to play tfc. beyond that, i don't konw.

Originally posted by Glacier
sparky servers are all like anti HHs, its impossible for me and a lot of other people to conc on them

ive actually seen u kiddeath and a few other people jsut scream "you cant fuckin conc on this server" or something like it and then jsut leave

it is terrible for concing.... then i go to pf2 and its easy as fuck...

[rollo]

1)stop using the 'we can't trust ruiner' excuse since billdoor has the source code as well and he will make sure nothing funny is going on

2)the fact that the bhop speed stays drops down only to 169% after you go beyond 170% is also a stupid excuse since THIS SETTING CAN BE CHANGED!!!

3)the only thing left to consider is the ping/hh problems but i think they may be due to Phatfarm connection since i play on SAS server on burstfire.net with a ping of 110+(2x phatfarm ping) and i can hh fine there but i sometimes have problems on PF1...

edit: sas server or 187.... not sure which :/

[ZeusofIowa]

Originally posted by K!D
ive actually seen u kiddeath and a few other people jsut scream "you cant fuckin conc on this server" or something like it and then jsut leave

it is terrible for concing.... then i go to pf2 and its easy as fuck...

I'm never able to hh with any reliability with sparky running.

[Melt]

Originally posted by rollo
1)stop using the 'we can't trust ruiner' excuse since billdoor has the source code as well and he will make sure nothing funny is going on

2)the fact that the bhop speed stays drops down only to 169% after you go beyond 170% is also a stupid excuse since THIS SETTING CAN BE CHANGED!!!

3)the only thing left to consider is the ping/hh problems but i think they may be due to Phatfarm connection since i play on SAS server on burstfire.net with a ping of 110+(2x phatfarm ping) and i can hh fine there but i sometimes have problems on PF1...

edit: sas server or 187.... not sure which :/
Quite honestly why billdoor having the code make it any less. the whole premise of Roaster John was a trojan. Why should i trust a person who would write that?

[L0ki]

for all you naysayers:

GG PARANOIA BANDWAGON

[Melt]

Originally posted by L0ki
for all you naysayers:

GG PARANOIA BANDWAGON
Keep saying the same quote over and over. The more you use it doesnt make it more effective.

If you let in one metamod plug-in, will you let in others too? Metamod itself sometimes causes issues and lag. Leave this shit off match servers.

And no, I don't trust hackers. You were caught 2 years ago and banned ever since then...so why are you still around? You managed to make a hack program and used it to catch a few hackers with it. But 90% of the people that used it didn't get banned, since they only used it to pub. And apparently now someone ripped apart Roaster John and removed the reporting function. So now there's the most popular hack program of the past year floating around with lots of goodies in it for anyone to use and get away with. Thanks for that, too.

[nightwolf]

from what i know about ruiner it would be like letting the fox guard the chicken coup if we agreed to this bullshit

[MadEagle]

Originally posted by nightwolf
keep the league the way it is i'm sick of adding more rules for fucks sake its rediculous anymore

[Nomad]

wow... some of you spout off so much BS I'm actually curious to know what you're like as a person. it takes a lot of anger or a lot of ignorance to ride so hard on someone who was banned for hacking two years ago (I believe that's the correct date?), and yet in spite of (or maybe because of?) his inability to play clan matches - short of getting a new wonid+ip - is still around and writing programs to BENEFIT this "community".
deadprez did bring up a somewhat legitimate point about RoasterJohn, but I'm out of the hacking loop apparently, because I was not aware that a modified roaster john was in widespread use... regardless, VAC should put a dent in the amount of blatant hacking going on.

sparky2 is not meant to stop someone from going out and getting OGC and using it in a match, its purpose primarily concerns exploits (such as explosion sprites, ex_ and cl_ settings) which are far more common than people with a wallhack/aimbot program.
that said, my opinion is:

Pros:
It does a good (albeit not perfect) job of locking settings that accoriding to popular opinion need to be locked.

Cons:
It is considered "yet another program that needs to be run." People are lazy, remember the problems with ringerfree?

There may be problems enforcing the use of the correct version of sparky2. I'd assume closed source should keep such problems to a minimum, but you could still end up with people changing their Sparkyv2STA/TFL.cfg to suit their preferences (little more interp here, little less cl_lw there). On the other hand, the same could be said about league configs... so this may be a non-issue.

Speaking of non-issues, most of the problems people are so fond of bringing up are either entirely wrong or misinformed. Some concerns may or may not be legit, but you have no proof...
I have yet to see a legitimate reason to believe the claim that Sparkiesv2 does in fact affect ping/loss/choke in such a way as to impede concing. Unless someone does a thurough study on this and finds out the facts, I'll rely on my own experience which says that the claim is part of loki's paranoia bandwagon :p

last note: one thing to take into consideration is just how much control we want leagues to have over matches. obviously they need to maintain some presence and enforce a little order to make sure matches actually get played, but I believe some things should be reconsidered and left to the discretion of the clans, rather than have a rules page that is longer than all your roster pages put together ;x
k I'm done

[psychoprentt22]

if the program works it blocks commands which are deemed illigal in leagues, then why not try it out and give it chance...am sure ruiner/billdoor can try to fix the problems with sparkies 2..

on the other side i think ppl dont want sparkies on because they use certain commands/scripts that would be blocked by sparkies...

problems i have found are:

1. grenade problem that u prime a grenade and it acts as if u have it prime but in reality it isnt, only way i tought of to fix it is to kill urself and u can throw again but in matches could be really annoying..

2. lag issues.

3. sometimes u cant handheld..

4. easy way around the _special block.

i say if ruiner and or billdoor can try to fix these problems, then why not have it in leagues...and for ppl who are complaining about ruiner and using this program malicously, someone stated above that billdoor has the source code make an offical sta or any league use so why keep bringing ruiner's name into this...

{MoB}-psychoprentt

[WingNut]

Originally posted by darkcrystal
i think this would be great. some leagues have rules that ban ex_interp, ect. and have no way of enforcing it.

There STILL isnt a way to enforce it. Any current program that supposedly "locks" cvars can be bypassed.

[Defrag]

I'm not saying the etac plugin is infallible, but I've yet to see a HW interp hacking on a properly configured server that's running it..

[[HCA]SonGoku]

I talked to the enora person (think thats his name) but he told em that there is no USA plugin available, something that had to do with databases. Maybe since then something came up.

[rollo]

Originally posted by Melt
Quite honestly why billdoor having the code make it any less. the whole premise of Roaster John was a trojan. Why should i trust a person who would write that?

lmao so now you don't trust billdoor?

...

after they figure out the hhing/lag problem(if it really exists) any1 who is agains't sparky2 is definetly a hacker...

[Sorrit]

Originally posted by rollo
after they figure out the hhing/lag problem(if it really exists) any1 who is agains't sparky2 is definetly a hacker...

I'll be against it long after they fix it, but I never have and never will hack.

[NukeleaR]

Eh, well I don't know if you kiddies will remember when Ruiner was defacing the pictures of catacombs admins and other TFC personalities on konspiracy.org anonymously. Anyways, DLinkOZ of [OESM] (my old clan) set out on a personal crusade to track down the owner of konspiracy.org (the host of the files). Well, needless to say Dave (DLink) got in a few arguments with Ruiner. Hell, I hated Ruiner. I thought he was a bitch and probably got into it a few times with him. Now, this wasn't anything huge...but it still shaped my opinion of him. Then later I found out Ruiner was a hacker...hell, I hate him even more after that.

But frankly now I don't have a problem with him. He has truly seemed to change his ways. And IF there is some advantage placed on certain users of sparkysv2 or if it causes harm then how hard is it going to be to simply uninstall it from the server?

[brett]

Originally posted by nightwolf
keep the league the way it is i'm sick of adding more rules for fucks sake its rediculous anymore

*ridiculous

They're not fucking adding rules, they're just enforcing the ones already made..

Originally posted by NucleaR
Eh, well I don't know if you kiddies will remember when Ruiner was defacing the pictures of catacombs admins and other TFC personalities on konspiracy.org anonymously. Anyways, DLinkOZ of [OESM] (my old clan) set out on a personal crusade to track down the owner of konspiracy.org (the host of the files). lol that was awesome, i remember that :)

[unix_yoda]

Originally posted by Kaneda
Go look at PF1 and PF2... there is your ping issue.

I went from 30 to the NJ one to 120 IF IM LUCKY.

As nice as it is, it really makes it a lot harder to HH conc unless you play there everyday and work on the timing.

that is not enough evidence to say that the mod lags the servers, you need to isolate a variable (sparky) and test it over several places before you can make such a conclusion

Originally posted by Vr_
no way in hell im going to run a program made by a hacker. the day a legit tfc player or gamer makes a decent anticheat i'll use it and support it for leagues.

why? most good programs are made by hackers... ;) people are too paranoid as well as unaware that you can check the program to find out what it's doing and not doing.

[rollo]

Originally posted by Sorrit
I'll be against it long after they fix it, but I never have and never will hack.

So why exactly are you agains't sparky2 Sorrit? We know know that ruiner isn't putting in extra shit that would harm anyone in anyway since BILLDOOR HAS THE SOURCE CODE. This utility will do no harm what so ever and it will help admins enforce league rules. So why are you still againsn't it? sup hax?

[Resolute]

i don't care, i just play tfc.

[unix_yoda]

Originally posted by Melt
Quite honestly why billdoor having the code make it any less. the whole premise of Roaster John was a trojan. Why should i trust a person who would write that?

why shouldnt you? it was done to help CATCH cheaters, unless of course.... but the return arguement will be, "well what stops him from sending blah blah blah", nothing really but i highly doubt billdoor would steal information or whatever else...

go hack unix :p

[Ugly_Jim]

i want to see how good all the titanium and 1a teams' defense is with sparky v2...just to see that would be worth 1 month of conc-less matches imo :-D

[DUGAN]

Originally posted by Ruiner
Mr. UGC guy :D,

Many admins approached me and had zillions questions about this project. I've responded to all their questions and even added certain features on request of certain leagues. So, if you have any questions I would be more than happy to answer you. I hang in #sparky, #konspiracy etc..

*edit* I just sent the source to billdoor so we may work a bit on this together, hopefully this will make some people happy that an STA admin has access to the source..

Good work, I hope to talk to you soon about implementation. By the way, you can call me DUGAN ;)

[T3muJin]

I guess everyone has already forgotten that ruiner was playing under an alias in STA back in Dec of 2002 when he ran NiX?

[[SSK]Nemesis]

u fuckin cock, me and silent dark understand the fact that this setting allows for nublars to _special hop their asses at 169% off a conc or rocketjump.... i long ago developed the skill of landing at 169% off a conc or rocket jump or near it... babblebabblebabble
wow i post that the stuff u describe above is a configurable setting that was set at "stay at 170% instead of slowing down to the default 100%" on the 187 server FOR A WHILE and u reply by calling me a cock and explaining your problem with a setting that has long been changed , failing to realize it IS A SETTING and nothing more
ppl slow down to default again, since the last 2 or 3 months
gg calling ppl a cock because ur just ignorant

Originally posted by T3muJin
I guess everyone has already forgotten that ruiner was playing under an alias in STA back in Dec of 2002 when he ran NiX? The evil ruiner striked again!!!!! OMG

I R KILL TFC NOW!@

[PHISH]

I'd make a sure bet the people that are saying it is impossible to hh on a server with sparky only played on the phatfarm that had it and was/is having connection problems...test out all the other servers with it and you shall see

[Pandelli]

TFL has been testing its .cfg version for the issues regarding lag and stablity, as well as the settings we are trying to enforce (cl_lw, cl_lc, ect.) Some clans have volunteered to beta test the program during week 14 and 15 of TFL matches (non-playoff matches).

TFL hopes to implement the program starting next season, pending any technical issues with the program. There has been a thread in the TFL captains forum for about 2 weeks now addressing the questions and concerns of the TFL members. Please make sure your clan representative posts your thoughts on it there for the TFL staff to see. Like Gemini posted earlier, if your clan contact does not have access to this forum, have them contact Dolemite (dolemite@tfleague.com) or Azlan (azlan@tfleague.com).

As stated before, this requires nothing from the individual player to download or configure because it being server side only. All the settings will be within the TFL.cfg which is used during matches already, so the server operators will only have to make sure that Sparkies Server is running.

:)

[DLinkOZ]

lol that was awesome, i remember that :)

Very old post, but yes it was funny as hell. My favorite two lines (and damnit I wish I still had the logs):

Ruiner - I'll make your life a living hell
Me - You're going to marry me?

[Mexi]

3. There are too many restrictions in TFC now... what happened to having fun? Wouldn't it be more fun to play without exploiters?



Exploits, you mean the illegal ones? The ones that are illegal as hacks? Let's play with hacks, too, I'm sure that would be equally entertaining. Great idea. UGC should try it.

[BliND]

i like how songoku likes to make rules and then doesn't play the game :D

[Jeronimo]

[Pandelli]

Very old post, but yes it was funny as hell. My favorite two lines (and damnit I wish I still had the logs):

Ruiner - I'll make your life a living hell
Me - You're going to marry me?

gg bringing up year old threads.

[QuakerC4]

[]C4[] servers have been running Sparkys2 for quite some time and have had no problems that can actually be attributed to Sparkys2. I don't see []C4[] Private on the list of servers running Sparkys2 though.

As far as the 'security' issues are concerned, most people seem to be ignoring a (perhaps) simple solution. Many leagues are already running RingerFree and RF, as we all know, can monitor the server to check that certain cvars are set properly. It should be a relatively simple matter to setup RF to check the version of Sparkys (and perhaps other aspects) as well.

Some people have mentioned that turning Sparkys on and off for different leagues, would be a problem, but anyone who runs AdminMod on their server already knows the hassle involved with TFL's dislike of AM (and sparkys2), and is used to it.

Perhaps, if RF and Sparkys (& AdminMod) are configured to work together more closely, it would be an easier sell to ALL the leagues.

[Nuggs|*1]

Plus that whole hack sparkies thing is bullshit

1) its closed course
2) could always do some checksum or CRC to make sure its legit

Too bad this fizzled out, I think it would have been very benificial to TFC match play.