I'm confused (ADL Ruling)

[Jarek]

Ok, I am confused at this.

This may make me look like an asshole, but I know I'm right for once. Some of you know there was a dispute in the TnS Vs y3 match on sunday.
Apparently someone was playing with the wrong wonid, and that wonid is not registered on sta site. There is no IP to prove it was him or anything.


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The rules on the Sta-ADL site state:

"VIII. Member Rules / Rosters / Multi-clanning / Ringing

All members that are participating in a match must be on the current clan roster.

The clan rosters are open for additions/subtractions 5 days a week, from Monday-Friday. They are CLOSED on Saturdays and Sundays.

No ringers, multi-clanners of any sort. Please keep a participating active roster w/ WONids on the STA site."

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Note, if he wasn't a ringer, then their roster wasn't updated anyways so the ruling still should go for automatic forfeit for y3. The same situation happened almost two months ago in a y3 against RAK title match. y3 lost the match, just as TnS did this sunday. RAK had a guy with the wrong WONid and no IP to prove it.


The title match was: ~RAK~ vs y3 June 15, 2003 osaka_r y3 wins by ruling.

This was posted on RAK's site (sorry about ripping it form there guys):


"6/16/2003 Posted by ~RAK~uBaH 12:02:29 AM

Ok well I was wrong we aren't keeping our title. Our beloved Dr.Gizmo was either on a different comp or using a different wonid at the time of the match that wasnt rostered so that means we take a forfiet loss. Yah that sucks but thats life. I requested to go gold, as far as that goes ba is going to talk to smack but it should happen. Sorry guys !"

In this situation the same deal happened that happened with the y3 match.

The ruling was that y3 won the match because RAK had an unrostered WONid in the match. Now in the TnS/y3 match this sunday, y3 had an unrostered WONid playing for them, yet the ruling whent in their favor anyways, and the title win stayed. y3 won the match even with an unregistered WONid.

I'm wondering why y3 got the ruling in their favor this time, when RAK didnt two months ago.

Was the STA-ADL site updated before the Ruling was called? Was the ruling misunderstood?
This is not a question of whether he was a ringer, this is a question on the Ruling by the admins. This shows a contradiction to previous rulings, why is it ruled that way?

PM me on IRC if you want the links to all these quotes, or the screenshot of wonids.

[Direhit]

I would recommend you bringing it up with a STA admin.

[KrunchyWater]

Originally posted by Direhit[PB]
I would recommend you bringing it up with a STA admin.

That's the logical thing. I say instead that he post his problem on a forum which is no way related to any league.







Oh, wait.

[Jarek]

Ok, Nap has already emailed all of the ADL admins about this, however I will send them these facts. I just wanted some public opinion on this

[KrunchyWater]

Originally posted by JarekMace
Ok, Nap has already emailed all of the ADL admins about this, however I will send them these facts. I just wanted some public opinion on this

Here's your public opinion:
no one gives a damn

[Jarek]

thats nice KW, but that might just be your opinion, please jsut post in the cesspool if you want to flame me

[Direhit]

I think you have a valid point, just bring it to an admin's attention.

[fishfeet]

yeah, that is rather fucked up if you ask me. But it doesnt surprise me. There are some MAJOR flaws in the rules and admining of this league. Ive tried to point out some of these flaws a few times in the past without ANY care from any of the admins (*well one time an admin said something, but that was it. I think he said it just ot shut me up)

but yeah, the admins CANT rule one way one time and then another way another time UNLESS the rules were UPDATED between the 2 rulings. Very similar to how the courts rule on cases.

[headstrong]

maybe this will help jarek
Each clan is responsible for keeping their official STA roster up to date. However, the roster rule is designed to prevent ringing. In the event that a player is found to have played yet is not on the roster, we will make a determination whether or not that player is a ringer using any means available, including other league roster systems. This rule is NOT designed so that a team may get a forfeit win merely because a clan forgot to update their STA roster. HOWEVER, any clan abusing our leniency on their inability to properly maintain their own roster WILL be submit to forfeit loss, or punished more severely should the situation dictate it.

That was right after the rak vs y3 match. So they changed the rule so people don't forfiet for being forgetfull once in a while. But nevertheless the admins still decide who and what that player was doing. Sometimes you have someone change there wonid and not say anything sometimes they are just playing at another computer with a different half-life you never know. You guys got beat that is that. I think there are too many rules and too many ways to get the "easy win" but if it came down to y3 dropping that one guy and using another the scores would have prolly been the same or came close to it. not trying to flame tns or you jarek just stating my opinion.
but yeah, the admins CANT rule one way one time and then another way another time UNLESS the rules were UPDATED between the 2 rulings. Very similar to how the courts rule on cases. -fish
Yea fish they updated the rules to make it a little more fair I suppose, because people do forget something like that sometimes and the rules stated not rostered wonid = ringer = forfiet so thats why got the forfiet loss. Now its like non-rostered = possible ringer = admins decision = possible forfiet.

[Killa]

That supposed new rule or whatever, is BS. Now they're going let it it slide if you forget to have someone on the roster, next it will be you dont even need a roster.

Y3 had someone play who wasnt on their roster. That, my friends, is against the rules, and thus Y3 should have to forfeit.

[battleangel]

I was the poor sod that had to make the ruling against RAK because STA's rules were pretty straightforward that the roster had to be kept up to date. :( The STA 9v9 rule seemed alot better to me because, yeah, people can change their wonid..but if they are who they are supposed to be, why force punishment? So, the rule got changed to match the STA 9v9 rule.

Take Krunchy for example. There are two places that he can and will play at, along with a couple different wonids. Say Krunchy played in a match at his other home, with a different wonid and a different ip. It'd be Krunchy, but if the rule was the same as before, yeah, SN would take a forfeit. Now luckily, SN has never run into that because KW has always been good about giving us his wonids so we can put them up on the site. But sometimes, players just kind of space that they should do that. They just want to play and have fun.

I don't know much anything about the dispute but I would guess that whoever it was, was indeed a y3 member and not an actual ringer. I highly doubt that the admins would make a ruling that would benefit a clan using a real ringer.

Hope that helps.

battleangel

[headstrong]

That supposed new rule or whatever, is BS. Now they're going let it it slide if you forget to have someone on the roster, next it will be you dont even need a roster. -killa

How is it BS? I mean what if killa forgot to add someone to the roster or he is at a cousins house for the weekend on a diff wonid, or lost the cd had to reinstall and played with his new hl cd, and didn't tell you. No one that plays is a dick tracy and checks there teams wonid's before and after every round thats just insane.
The ADL admins are simply following the STA rules of showing leniancy to a team if they forget or something like I stated above. The rak guys pushed to get the rule changed to where the admins could determine whether he has a ringer or if there simply some forgetfullness. So don't get all into thinking that adl admins are showing favoritism.
The rule was changed from any non-rostered player that plays will result in a team forfiet(basically i dont remember word for word) to
Each clan is responsible for keeping their official STA roster up to date. However, the roster rule is designed to prevent ringing. In the event that a player is found to have played yet is not on the roster, we will make a determination whether or not that player is a ringer using any means available, including other league roster systems. This rule is NOT designed so that a team may get a forfeit win merely because a clan forgot to update their STA roster. HOWEVER, any clan abusing our leniency on their inability to properly maintain their own roster WILL be submit to forfeit loss, or punished more severely should the situation dictate it.
Keywords are "to prevent ringing" and "This rule is NOT designed so that a team may get a forfeit win merely because a clan forgot to update their STA roster"
isnt it lame when you practice for a week and totally kick a teams ass to find out you lossed because someone on your team didn't mention that they were playing from somewhere else ? or the other things i stated.

its a game fellas, stop taking it to another level.

[battleangel]

Nice post, headstrong but actually, I was the one who pushed for the change. I hated having to make that ruling on that RAK match but there was no other way around it. As a consolation, I promised RAK that I would nag and nag until it got changed. And it did, TY WONDY!

I think it's a good rule to have in place. You never know what's going to happen and honestly, if the person is on the roster, then a team shouldn't be forced to forfeit their win because of a technicality. To me, that just isn't cool :(

battleangel

..
dumb

Make sure all of your people have correct wonid's on the roster, and if they use more then one, add them both.

If one of your members does something and switches wonid, or whatever without telling the leader, it is to be assumed by the other clan that he was a ringer, and in violation of the rules, and such punishment should be forced upon the clan in violation.

it is up to the leader to make sure that all wonids are correct, otherwise, face the consequences.

[headstrong]

id rather play the game with my clan then police it......
hence why i joined cK ;)

*wonders where lunar lives in philly*

o thanks for clearing that up BA.
:)

his ip was proven to be the same, but i agree that it contradicts the ruling from the rak match a while back

[therealrhombus]

Before ranting/flaming get your facts straight mace, his ip WAS PROVEN to be the same.

[sc`]

I haven't read a single post yet but I'm guessing this thread is stupid

[Lucas]

blah blah blah blah blah take the loss, its a game. RAK whooped us on that map, thought they deserved the win, like we deserved this one. They got moved to gold anyway so its all peachy :D. glad that rule is in place now.

[sPiKe]

yeah it was nyphe who had the wrong wonid.. due to the fact that he has at least 4 copyies of HL, (i have no idea why) and that he recently reformatted and installed using a different cdkey.
i believe that almost everyone knows that nyphe was acutally nyphe.. he played engineer and spy for gods sake... it obviously wasnt "bots" in desguise.. but tns has their right to dispute, and i have my right to defend that, which is what i did, for the past 3 days. i managed to search my server logs and find the ip from nyphe and match it with a differnt time he connected as well as his irc ip.
im sorry to tns for all this mumbo jumbo, but its really uncalled for.. even if nyphe's score was taken out completly, i believe we still would have won the match.. as for updating the rosters, that is probably my,shaft and rhombuses fault, cause we kinda dont know who is the leader of y3 right now.. we'll have that striaghtened out soon.

gg tns
-spike

[therealrhombus]

shutup rusty, we damn well know who the leader of y3 is its me(hell you quit us, then rejoined sayin you never wanted to lead again remember?), but You dont like accepting it. :P (off topic I know)

[sc`]

Now that I've read all this, I stick with my previous opinion

[Jarek]

i hate when people read threads with their asses and not with their eyes.

I don't doubt nyphe was actually nyphe, now that I've heard that his IP was showed its a fact it was. You can take this thread one of three ways. One, you could look at it the way i meant it and see that there was a contradiction in the rules. Second, you could think I was some pathetic guy who only cared about winning no matter what it took. Or third, you could look at it and think "wow, blah blah blah I don't care because I'm a jackass and just ignore problems when they come about and wait for someone else to solve them."

Anyways enough of this thread, y3 does indeed deserve the win, but so did RAK. Now seeing as how I'm not playing in any matches anytime soon.. why do I give a shit

[Lucas]

right...... did you not see the rules, it was an accident that he wasn't on the roster, thats why they changed the rule, so people couldn't get a free win like we did.

[Lucas]

and yes i can understand your point, if we had added nyphe it could have all been avoided, lo siento.

[KnockKnock]

Anyway, this is why i like ringerfree in STA and TFL

If someone is using the wrong wonid, it spams a warning across the middle of the screen right at the beginning and then after a minute kicks them. There's no "can we use this ringer or can this guy play, he's on a different comp" a clan either runs ringerfree or loses its right to dispute. It also makes sure all the server settings are right, and changes them if they arent (i think, might just spam that they're wrong) If a player is playing with his wrong wonid, he can just go change it to the right one real quick during prematch and not miss a minute of the match (although why you need more than 1, i dont know) Less disputes = more times for admins to do important stuff.

Granted, this wont stop the type of ringing that souljax was doing, and that is why his is such a gross offense that imo warrented his suspension.

Ringerfree is a small download and extremely easy to use and run, (I use it for my team and get no slow-down or a higher ping) only requiring rcon access to the server.

So yeah, ummm, im saying if ADL used ringer free, this could never happen again unless another souljax came along.

[Jarek]

Yea ringerfree sounds useful, all you gotta do if you installed with the wrong cd key is

Run --> regedit --> then find your sierra/halflife 'Key' file and change the value to the cd key that u normally use

Note: Don't screw around with the 'regedit*' feature if you don't know what you are doing

That takes all of 30 seconds so you'd be back in time for prematch. Ringerfree should be optional for ADL (if it already isn't I have no idea)

anyhow, didn't mean to be an ass-ho to you guys in y3, gg

[MitsuMan]

Originally posted by ShortCircuit
I haven't read a single post yet but I'm guessing this thread is stupid
an insightful opinion. thanks for commenting.

[sc`]

np, just hit me up in irc and I'll give more comments

[MitsuMan]

I need to stop wasting my time, but thanks for the offer!

[battleangel]

Of course the tns/y3 ruling contradicts the rak/y3 ruling. The rak/y3 dispute/ruling were what precipitated the change in the rule (which came about 3 weeks later) which caused the recent tns/y3 ruling to be different from the rak/y3 ruling.

did that make sense? o0

battleangel

why is it that ADL kids always love to dispute at every chance they get? this isnt a flame just a mere question, cuz it seems to me like it is that way.

[Micr0n]

Originally posted by undertow
why is it that ADL kids always love to dispute at every chance they get? this isnt a flame just a mere question, cuz it seems to me like it is that way.


the cK "kids" have never disputed anything except a tfl 5-5 match last summer. But it does seem the same teams are involved in disputes more then others.

im just saying that because it occurs way more then ive seen while dealing with CTF players/teams. Well anyway all i am saying is that its a game and people shouldnt cry so much

[lunar]

yyz roolz