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Palmy
September 24th, 2004, 01:24 AM
Yeah, another generic thread. Sue me.

The best guitarist ever is none other than Tak Matsumoto. He's the guitarist for the J-rock band, the B'z. Though his real talent shines through in his solo work. His bends are pitch perfect, his tone is ungodly, and he has some of the most incredible phrasing I've ever heard. Yeah, technique is great and all, but Tak goes beyond technique and makes the guitar sound like an incredibly human instrument. Centuries of practice cannot make you sound like him.

What's your pick?

Thrash
September 24th, 2004, 01:26 AM
Better to get these out of the way regardless.


I don't know much about guitarists overall (drums are my preference) but I've always liked Buckethead. He may not be the best talent wise but his sound is always something I like and the way he makes his music is something I find to be extreme appealing to me. Plus I've met him.

Palmy
September 24th, 2004, 01:29 AM
Better to get these out of the way regardless.


I don't know much about guitarists overall (drums are my preference) but I've always liked Buckethead. He may not be the best talent wise but his sound is always something I like and the way he makes his music is something I find to be extreme appealing to me. Plus I've met him.
Buckethead is insane.

...Eight-finger-tapping! :eek:

VeeKaChu
September 24th, 2004, 01:48 AM
Maybe not the best, but certainly amazing- to me at least- are the Del Castillo (http://www.delcatillomusic.com) brothers. They apparently grew up playing heavy metal in Austin TX, and collaborated for the first time in the band Del Castillo, playing what I guess would be best described as tejano-influenced rock on nylon-stringed classicals.

I bought their performance DVD, and watching these two solo literally leaves me breathless. I'll upload a solo cut later on if anyone is intersted- none of the links on the site actually showcase their soloing skills...

jerriko
September 24th, 2004, 02:53 AM
umm Vai, Malmstreem, and so many others. As Steve Vai said "the guitar is endless creative tool" its only a matter of time before someone just simply will blows us away, and the millions that play guitar will try to learn there style.

chase
September 24th, 2004, 08:35 AM
i think rage against the machine was one of the most perfect bands assembled and it all revolved around tom morello the guitarist

Nine
September 24th, 2004, 10:24 AM
I'm the best guitarist.


2nd to me I like Santana.. how come no one talks about him?

VeeKaChu
September 24th, 2004, 10:59 AM
Heh, one of the Del Castillo bothers talks about him, as "the" most important influence on his playing...

Palmy
September 24th, 2004, 01:38 PM
I'm the best guitarist.


2nd to me I like Santana.. how come no one talks about him?
Santana is way overrated and has horrible tone.

Nine
September 24th, 2004, 01:40 PM
No need to smash my dreams, Palmy. :(

DISASSEMBLER
September 24th, 2004, 04:47 PM
Kurt Cobain for his simplex power cords.

Also [I forget his name] The bassist/singer for Primus plays awsome bass lines.

Thrash
September 24th, 2004, 09:09 PM
Kurt Cobain for his simplex power cords.

Careful now, that's dangerous to say around Palmy.


And the bassist is called Les Claypool but.. he plays bass :p

Palmy
September 24th, 2004, 09:15 PM
Careful now, that's dangerous to say around Palmy.
Well, I just figured he was joking because Kurt Cobain is a terrible "guitarist."

Thrash
September 24th, 2004, 09:16 PM
He still sounds great to me Palmy <3

goldplatypus
September 25th, 2004, 01:42 AM
satriani is good
joe stump rocks as well

SilentDark
September 25th, 2004, 11:57 PM
Anyone got any vids of buckethead and his 8 finger tapping?

mess
September 26th, 2004, 10:27 PM
Clapton

Palmy
September 27th, 2004, 12:18 AM
Esteban can play Metallica.

YourFavoriteWeapon
September 27th, 2004, 12:21 AM
http://membres.lycos.fr/metaladonf/hpbimg/kornkorn222.JPG

am i rite

YourFavoriteWeapon
September 27th, 2004, 12:25 AM
they have more strings than esteban

Palmy
September 27th, 2004, 12:27 AM
But Esteban has longer fingernails.

Ser
September 27th, 2004, 08:26 AM
how does one go about picking the best guitarist?

does it have to do with incredible shredding?

does it have to do with feelings and emotions behind the songs?

does it have to do with creativity/innovation?

or does it have to do with all of the above?

Terminotaur
September 27th, 2004, 09:45 AM
there is no best guitarist just as there is no best poet

you can't measure an artform like you can the 100m dash

YourFavoriteWeapon
September 27th, 2004, 11:07 AM
check out these philosophers

Palmy
September 27th, 2004, 01:21 PM
how does one go about picking the best guitarist?

does it have to do with incredible shredding?

does it have to do with feelings and emotions behind the songs?

does it have to do with creativity/innovation?

or does it have to do with all of the above?
Whatever you want.

there is no best guitarist just as there is no best poet
There are certainly guitarists that are better than other guitarists. This is undeniable and to think otherwise is simply naive.

JuiCe
September 27th, 2004, 02:00 PM
slash

Ser
September 27th, 2004, 05:08 PM
i dont know :/

to me guitar (or any instrument for that matter) is just a tool to express emotions

i love shreddin but i think that theres no emotion behind playin

petrucci is the only one who ive heard that combines these two

you can play insane solos that take up insane amounts of skill, but i think emotion gets lost durin the arpeggios, sweeps, etc

i think the best guitar players are blues players, nobody can capture emotion as good as those guys (bb king, copeland, king, vaughan, guy, and in some ways page, hendrix, and others)

thats just my opinion


edit: o yea forgot to mention buckethead, who i think is the best guitar player today

Palmy
September 27th, 2004, 05:43 PM
Timo Tolkki

http://metalkings.ru/news/news/timo-tolkki-02.jpg
Box-cuttered!

Griffith-
September 27th, 2004, 06:49 PM
haha

drone
September 27th, 2004, 11:32 PM
i like mike mccready of pearl jam. live version of course.

Naufragus
September 27th, 2004, 11:36 PM
To the tune of La Cucaracha:
Trey trey trey trey trey.
Trey trey trey trey trey.
Trey trey trey trey trey trey trey.

Anastasio, that is.

Edit: Cobane blew. He was a pathetic musician.

Ser
September 28th, 2004, 12:23 AM
i like mcready

but i find most of his songs to be repetitive
specially the long solos he has

Terminotaur
September 28th, 2004, 02:53 AM
There are certainly guitarists that are better than other guitarists. This is undeniable and to think otherwise is simply naive.
I said there is no best guitarist.

Palmy
September 28th, 2004, 04:29 PM
I said there is no best guitarist.
Blah, blah, blah - don't give me that shit. If a guitarist can be better than another, then there can be a best.

vekkio
September 28th, 2004, 04:32 PM
i think rage against the machine was one of the most perfect bands assembled and it all revolved around tom morello the guitarist

i disagree, RATM revolved solely around de la Rocha. morello is a great guitarist though.

Palmy
September 28th, 2004, 04:34 PM
i disagree, RATM revolved solely around de la Rocha. morello is a great guitarist though.
Can someone explain to me the greatness of Morello? Everyone seems to love him, but I think I'm missing out on something.

Thrash
September 28th, 2004, 04:38 PM
Don't think 'technical' Palmy. :p

Palmy
September 28th, 2004, 04:40 PM
Don't think 'technical' Palmy. :p
Trust me, I'm not.
http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/07-23-04-albums/TheSpecialist.jpg

vekkio
September 28th, 2004, 04:42 PM
Can someone explain to me the greatness of Morello? Everyone seems to love him, but I think I'm missing out on something.

i've loved him ever since he was in a Electric sheep. Though He's nothing compared to the great Hendrix or James Patrick Page. :cool:

schtoofa
September 28th, 2004, 05:24 PM
Trust me, I'm not.
http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/07-23-04-albums/TheSpecialist.jpg

lol

Palmy
October 15th, 2004, 07:08 PM
I disagree completely.

The problem in determining who is the "best" guitar player lies in the fact that the criteria upon which such a judgement is made are neither well-defined nor purely objective.

But the most important reason why there can be no single "best" guitar player is that I don't believe for a second that a single human being can have the skill and artistry to be able to do everything better than every other player that has existed.

There are no doubt incredibly talented and skilled players but could you see slapping a nylon-string guitar into Eddie Van Halen's hands and expect him to play like Paco De Lucia? (And if you say "listen to Spanish Fly", you haven't heard Paco play before). Or if you give Paco a hotrodded Strat running into a Variac'ed Marshall, how would he sound if he tried to rip off a few covers from Van Halen's first album? (btw VeeKaChu - if you like DelCastillo, listen to Paco. Inhuman flamenco guitar player).

This is great news for musicians because there's always room to grow and it gives us all something interesting to do over the course of our entire lives. Here's a great quote from Scott Henderson (who is one of my current favorites...take a listen to his traditional blues stuff or his completely over-the-top fusion with Tribal Tech. Great tone, phrasing and improvistation skills):

"I don't think there are very many musicians who are completely satisfied with their own ability, because most of us realize that learning any art form is a lifelong endeavor that never reaches it's goal because of death."
Simply through the use of logic, if one guitarist can be better than another, than a best must exist. Obviously, I do not care about an objective best since I created this thread asking for others' contributions, so why don't you guys just stop trying to find something to disagree with and have an opinion for once?

solidstrife
October 15th, 2004, 11:46 PM
Chuck Schuldiner from Death. This man was a genius.

Yngwie malmsteen

alot of flamenco guitarists

Sesenta
October 16th, 2004, 11:15 AM
Simply through the use of logic, if one guitarist can be better than another, than a best must exist. Obviously, I do not care about an objective best since I created this thread asking for others' contributions, so why don't you guys just stop trying to find something to disagree with and have an opinion for once?

I did contribute and voice my opinion clearly: "...the most important reason why there can be no single best guitar player is that I don't believe for a second that a single human being can have the skill and artistry to be able to do everything better than every other player that has existed."

The problem here is that your "logic" doesn't take into consideration that every guitar player has strengths and weaknesses and that one player's weakness is often another player's strength.

Maybe a better title would have been "Your favorite guitar player of all time".

Taken this way, I'll say Eddie Van Halen. EVH completely turned the world of rock guitar upside down for me after hearing VH's debut album. Keep in mind that this album was released during a time when the peak of guitar "viruosity" were guys like Tony Iommi (great songwriter, awful solos), Jimmy Page (ditto), Ted Nugent (no comment), etc.

eon
October 18th, 2004, 01:10 PM
isnt there some guy in india or something that is supposed to be insane at guitar?

i'm not really sure where i heard this though, could be false.

anyway i would pick Olavi Mikkonen from Amon Amarth as probably my favorite guitarist of the moment simply because he tends to convey a lot of emotion through his playing in my mind, and seems to be able to find the right notes to convey perfectly the mood of the song.

polarity
October 18th, 2004, 03:36 PM
Can someone explain to me the greatness of Morello? Everyone seems to love him, but I think I'm missing out on something.

His ability to tear sound out of a guitar by doing the weirdest shit, I guess.

Palmy
October 18th, 2004, 07:44 PM
I did contribute and voice my opinion clearly: "...the most important reason why there can be no single best guitar player is that I don't believe for a second that a single human being can have the skill and artistry to be able to do everything better than every other player that has existed."

The problem here is that your "logic" doesn't take into consideration that every guitar player has strengths and weaknesses and that one player's weakness is often another player's strength.

Maybe a better title would have been "Your favorite guitar player of all time".

Taken this way, I'll say Eddie Van Halen. EVH completely turned the world of rock guitar upside down for me after hearing VH's debut album. Keep in mind that this album was released during a time when the peak of guitar "viruosity" were guys like Tony Iommi (great songwriter, awful solos), Jimmy Page (ditto), Ted Nugent (no comment), etc.
How does my "logic" (ooo, quotation marks) not take into consideration the strengths and weaknesses of players? Being the best at anything is based upon the strengths and weaknesses of players. If nobody had strengths and weaknesses, then no guitarist could be better than one another.

Yes, I'm aware that imperfections in the playing is what gives the guitarist their personality. However, the best guitarist's imperfections would have to be done consciously, and not due to a lack of ability. Sure, sloppy guitarists can have tons of personality, but they're far from being top tier, as far as guitarists go.

...And that is why you can determine the best guitarist. But of course, that's not what I was going for when I made this thread. You and Terminotaur simply had to take what I said literally.

Palmy
October 18th, 2004, 07:46 PM
His ability to tear sound out of a guitar by doing the weirdest shit, I guess.
I've heard much weirder. Eckhlund and Vai do much weirder stuff, and are MUCH, MUCH, MUUUUCH better guitarists than Morello will ever be.

polarity
October 18th, 2004, 07:58 PM
What can I say? Morello isn't an ungodly good guitarist, but he doesn't suck. I honestly don't care that much.

Repair Man
October 18th, 2004, 10:11 PM
Tom Morello is good, perhaps not in terms of raw skill, but his stuff is catchy as hell. Maybe its just me, but I don't get a hard-on watching someone shred the living fuck out of a guitar. Sure, it may take an assload of skill to do, but it isn't my cup of tea.

Oh, and just to throw another name out there, Billy Howerdel from A Perfect Circle. He might not be the most technically impressive guy out there, but the man sure as shit writes some good material.

OVERLORD
October 18th, 2004, 10:43 PM
Guitar is like any other instrument, there is a group of Virtuoso players that don't really have a rank because its just not something you can measure. I highly doubt that you'll get a conclusive answer anywhere. Petrucci is probably the fastest shredder alive, but you rerely see him do amazing tap parts like Van Halen. Vai might have the most innovative sound, but to be honest I'm not sure the musical quality of what he plays is as amazing as say... Kirk Hammett. Its too hard to add it all up after you account for favoritism.

Palmy
October 18th, 2004, 11:32 PM
Guitar is like any other instrument, there is a group of Virtuoso players that don't really have a rank because its just not something you can measure. I highly doubt that you'll get a conclusive answer anywhere. Petrucci is probably the fastest shredder alive, but you rerely see him do amazing tap parts like Van Halen. Vai might have the most innovative sound, but to be honest I'm not sure the musical quality of what he plays is as amazing as say... Kirk Hammett. Its too hard to add it all up after you account for favoritism.
Petrucci is very fast, but hardly the fastest shredder alive - not only that, but he's lifeless and can't write songs.

Vai doesn't have the most innovative sound. His tone is shit. He's an amazing guitarist, but he's too flashy and masturbatory.

Kirk Hammett's musical quality is hardly amazing.

Yeah, yeah, it's all opinion. Blah blah.

Palmy
October 18th, 2004, 11:33 PM
What can I say? Morello isn't an ungodly good guitarist, but he doesn't suck. I honestly don't care that much.
I know he doesn't suck. In fact, he's a pretty good guitarist, I hear. But the fact remains that he's incredibly overrated and doesn't deserve the ass-loads of acclaim he receives.

Thrash
October 18th, 2004, 11:36 PM
Morello is awesome.

Palmy
October 18th, 2004, 11:36 PM
Btw, if you guys want to hear some very original phrasing coupled with amazing technique, check out some Pete Lesperance - he's in Harem Scarem (a shitty penis-rock band) and has a solo album out. I have some songs if I could get hosting for them.

Thrash
October 18th, 2004, 11:42 PM
Hit me on AIM if you have it, (I forget) if not, fuck you I am not opening my IRC.

VeeKaChu
October 18th, 2004, 11:45 PM
Sorry, but WTF is "penis-rock"?

Palmy
October 18th, 2004, 11:46 PM
Sorry, but WTF is "penis-rock"?
It's a term I coined. I require 5 cents every time you use it.

Palmy
October 18th, 2004, 11:56 PM
Thanks to Thrash for hosting.

Pete Lesperance - Trouble With Pets:
http://www.tehsug.net/thrash/palmy/lesperance-trouble_with_pets.mp3

The best guitarist ever, Tak Matsumoto - Koi Uta [fixed]:
http://www.tehsug.net/thrash/palmy/tak_matsumoto-koi_uta.mp3

Thrash
October 19th, 2004, 12:23 AM
Right click and save as please.

euphoria
October 19th, 2004, 12:27 AM
Lenny Breau was quite an amazing guitarist. I've got some stuff he did with Chet Atkins for his first album, and it's beautiful. His ability to simulate multiple guitars at once is something I've never heard before.

Thrash
October 19th, 2004, 12:29 AM
Palmy doesn't know this, but I am actually the greatest guitarist ever.

VeeKaChu
October 19th, 2004, 02:32 AM
That Koi song song is awesome BG music- I've just looped it about ten times while I'm troubleshooting some log files- ironically for my HK office...

polarity
October 19th, 2004, 08:28 AM
Palmy is the most militant guitar player. Ever.

WrathChild
October 19th, 2004, 10:36 AM
I think you guys (other than palmy) seem to forget that guitarists are only good if (a) you probably haven't heard of them and (b) they are so technical that any sense of enjoyment is lost when you listen to them. Duh.

Ignatz
October 19th, 2004, 11:11 AM
Sorry to say this but neither one of those tracks did a damn thing for me as far as being really impressed with the guitar performance. The Matsumoto one was technically nice but boring and the Lesperance one was some run-of-the-mill licks dressed up with that Satriani-esque super bright production.

Try this one on for size:
http://clan-3v.com/Drivin_South.mp3

Modal Auxiliary
October 19th, 2004, 12:16 PM
I think you guys (other than palmy) seem to forget that guitarists are only good if (a) you probably haven't heard of them and (b) they are so technical that any sense of enjoyment is lost when you listen to them. Duh.


Did you even listen to the Tak clip?

Palmy
October 19th, 2004, 01:28 PM
Sorry to say this but neither one of those tracks did a damn thing for me as far as being really impressed with the guitar performance. The Matsumoto one was technically nice but boring and the Lesperance one was some run-of-the-mill licks dressed up with that Satriani-esque super bright production.

Try this one on for size:
http://clan-3v.com/Drivin_South.mp3
How is Trouble With Pets run-of-the-mill? I've never heard phrasing like his. He's the god of pre-bends (besides Tak).

Palmy
October 19th, 2004, 01:37 PM
Another Tak Matsumoto song. This one is titled "You Know...":
http://www.tehsug.net/thrash/palmy/tak_matsumoto-you-know.mp3

Ignatz
October 19th, 2004, 02:12 PM
well maybe youre just more of a connossieur of guitar than I am. He's got excellent, clean technique, no question, but as a piece of music, it doesn't move me any more than a TV commercial would.

Whereas that Hendrix track I posted just grabs me. It was recorded in the BBC studios, one take, no production value, nothing except a capable bass player and drummer, and sure theres some sloppy notes and shit in there, but it's 100x better, imo.

OVERLORD
October 19th, 2004, 02:19 PM
Petrucci is very fast, but hardly the fastest shredder alive - not only that, but he's lifeless and can't write songs.

Vai doesn't have the most innovative sound. His tone is shit. He's an amazing guitarist, but he's too flashy and masturbatory.

Kirk Hammett's musical quality is hardly amazing.

Yeah, yeah, it's all opinion. Blah blah.


...

my mistake

Ser
October 19th, 2004, 03:43 PM
Petrucci is very fast, but hardly the fastest shredder alive - not only that, but he's lifeless and can't write songs.




LOL
please be kidding
he might not be fast but calling him lifeless... yea ok

Palmy
October 19th, 2004, 04:06 PM
LOL
please be kidding
he might not be fast but calling him lifeless... yea ok
He has about as much soul as Malmsteen.

Thrash
October 19th, 2004, 05:30 PM
I ate Palmy's soul.

polarity
October 19th, 2004, 05:42 PM
I have no soul.

Sesenta
October 19th, 2004, 08:02 PM
How does my "logic" (ooo, quotation marks) not take into consideration the strengths and weaknesses of players? Being the best at anything is based upon the strengths and weaknesses of players. If nobody had strengths and weaknesses, then no guitarist could be better than one another.


Being the best player would imply no weaknesses or limitations whatsoever. The best player would be able to do everything and anything every other guitar player in the world could do and then some...at least that's what you're saying when "Blah, blah, blah - don't give me that shit. If a guitarist can be better than another, then there can be a best.". I'm saying that no such human exists. Nor will one ever exist.


Yes, I'm aware that imperfections in the playing is what gives the guitarist their personality. However, the best guitarist's imperfections would have to be done consciously, and not due to a lack of ability. Sure, sloppy guitarists can have tons of personality, but they're far from being top tier, as far as guitarists go.

...And that is why you can determine the best guitarist. But of course, that's not what I was going for when I made this thread. You and Terminotaur simply had to take what I said literally.

What's funny is I pretty much agree with most of your opinions of the various players named in this thread; the only statement I take exception to is the one I quoted above. I don't mind debating this because I like talking about guitar-related stuff. As long as you keep defending this statement, I'll continue to oppose it.

Sesenta
October 19th, 2004, 08:12 PM
How is Trouble With Pets run-of-the-mill? I've never heard phrasing like his. He's the god of pre-bends (besides Tak).

Lesperance is definitely a quality player and Tak is most definitely one of those few humans with a special feel for the electric guitar. But "Pets" is pretty run-of-the-mill from a composition standpoint. His phrasing is better than your garage band guitarist (i.e., everyone posting here including me) but listen to the solos in "Push Comes to Shove" and "Outta Love Again" for what I would call unbelievable phrasing. Van Halen recorded these solos over 20 years ago and few rock guys have even come close to his level of expression:

http://www.clanvendetta.org/64/sounds/other/push.mp3

http://www.clanvendetta.org/64/sounds/other/outta.mp3

And you haven't hear pre-bends until you've listened to the Hellecasters. The level of sophisication of these guys' bends is incredible. Not to mention the Hipshot B-bender and stealth slide stuff that Will Ray does. Even if country isn't your bag, listen to the sleight-of-hand stuff these guys pull off.

http://www.clanvendetta.org/64/sounds/other/menage.mp3

Palmy
October 19th, 2004, 08:27 PM
Being the best player would imply no weaknesses or limitations whatsoever. The best player would be able to do everything and anything every other guitar player in the world could do and then some...at least that's what you're saying when "Blah, blah, blah - don't give me that shit. If a guitarist can be better than another, then there can be a best.". I'm saying that no such human exists. Nor will one ever exist.
I'm not talking about a perfect guitarist, I'm talking about the existence of a best player. The best player would play better overall out of all guitarists, not necessarily do everything better than everyone else.

For instance, I can play triplets better than my roommate (he thinks so), but there's no question that he's a much better guitarist than I am.

What's funny is I pretty much agree with most of your opinions of the various players named in this thread; the only statement I take exception to is the one I quoted above. I don't mind debating this because I like talking about guitar-related stuff. As long as you keep defending this statement, I'll continue to oppose it.
That's fine. I don't mind debating this either.

Sesenta
October 19th, 2004, 08:28 PM
He has about as much soul as Malmsteen.

Malmsteen isn't bad - his guitar stuff with Alcatrazz is right on. If you consider that he was 18-19 when he recorded it, it's even more impressive. Too bad the band as a whole was awful.

The big thing I don't like about Yngwie is how he ripped off compositions that are in the public domain and adopted them as his own (no liner credits at all). He's done that twice that I know of: with Albinoni's Adagio in G Minor (aka Icarus Dream Suite) and J.S. Bach's Bouree in E Minor (aka Coming Bach or something similarly cheesy)

Palmy
October 19th, 2004, 08:35 PM
Lesperance is definitely a quality player and Tak is most definitely one of those few humans with a special feel for the electric guitar. But "Pets" is pretty run-of-the-mill from a composition standpoint. His phrasing is better than your garage band guitarist (i.e., everyone posting here including me) but listen to the solos in "Push Comes to Shove" and "Outta Love Again" for what I would call unbelievable phrasing. Van Halen recorded these solos over 20 years ago and few rock guys have even come close to his level of expression:

http://www.clanvendetta.org/64/sounds/other/push.mp3

http://www.clanvendetta.org/64/sounds/other/outta.mp3

And you haven't hear pre-bends until you've listened to the Hellecasters. The level of sophisication of these guys' bends is incredible. Not to mention the Hipshot B-bender and stealth slide stuff that Will Ray does. Even if country isn't your bag, listen to the sleight-of-hand stuff these guys pull off.

http://www.clanvendetta.org/64/sounds/other/menage.mp3
Yeah, the structure of Trouble With Pets is pretty standard, but the little runs he does have some of the most original phrasing I've heard. Van Halen's a great guitarist and all, but after so many people have ripped their styles from him, he doesn't sound as original as he did 20 years ago.

And that Hellecasters song owned. I'd heard of them, but never bothered to check them out.

Palmy
October 19th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Malmsteen isn't bad - his guitar stuff with Alcatrazz is right on. If you consider that he was 18-19 when he recorded it, it's even more impressive. Too bad the band as a whole was awful.

The big thing I don't like about Yngwie is how he ripped off compositions that are in the public domain and adopted them as his own (no liner credits at all). He's done that twice that I know of: with Albinoni's Adagio in G Minor (aka Icarus Dream Suite) and J.S. Bach's Bouree in E Minor (aka Coming Bach or something similarly cheesy)
Malmsteen's a technically excellent guitarist, but after 30 seconds, it all sounds like meedley-meedley-meedley-woo. The vast majority of his songs are 5 and 6 minute warm-up exercises. As far as neo-classical guitarists go, Jason Becker is my choice.

Sesenta
October 20th, 2004, 01:18 AM
I'm not talking about a perfect guitarist, I'm talking about the existence of a best player. The best player would play better overall out of all guitarists, not necessarily do everything better than everyone else.

For instance, I can play triplets better than my roommate (he thinks so), but there's no question that he's a much better guitarist than I am.


That's fine. I don't mind debating this either.

Gotcha. But some limitations would still need to be in place in order to make an intelligent stab at determining any kind of best player. At the very least, the choice of best would have to be limited to one particular style. Just look at the various suggestions so far in this thread - every player mentioned so far is basically a rock guitar player. So far no jazz, country, fusion, classical, flamenco, or blues players have been named. It's impossible to compare the ability of Joe Diorio who can bebop over changes that happen at lightspeed to the aggressive innovation of EVH to the rhythmic and technical complexity of Paco De Lucia. (Steve Morse might be an exception here). All are world class but they just can't be compared fairly to each other.

With some categories, I'm sure most guitar players could agree on a select few "best" players. And I'm not talking about some BS list like you'd see in Rolling Stone where players like Kurt Cobain (great songwriter, awful guitar) or Kirk Hammett (vibrato that sounds like he's jerking his guitar like a 12-year-old who just found his dad's Playboy stash and Special Olympics phrasing) make the list.

Personally, I'd have real trouble naming a best even given some categories. There are so many fantastic players out there and each one of them brings something unique and enjoyable. Maybe an alternative discussion could be "What defining qualities make a player good enough to be considered one of the best?"

For me, the most important thing is that intangible thing that I personally call "touch" or "feel". You know what I mean. You've seen and heard guys that can make the guitar sit up and beg (I'm not talking sheer technique here) and at the same time make it sound like that they are not even trying. Van Halen is a great example of this. I'm a great example of the opposite :( Anyone interested in old VH, give Fair Warning a listen. That was Eddie at his peak - innovation, unbelievable TONE, and he played with such huge balls in those days.

Just a few of my thoughts - I love playing and talking guitar. This thread started out a little rocky but it's turning into a pretty good discussion.

BTW - Jason Becker is amazing. His website is completely inspiring. I saw a clinic with Jason Becker and Marty Friedman shortly before he was hired by David Lee Roth and before he was diagnosed with ALS. They played a lot of stuff off of a couple of Cacophony albums...awesome.

P.S - what did you mean when you said, "I can play triplets better than my roommate"? Just wondering...

Palmy
October 20th, 2004, 01:33 AM
For me, the most important thing is that intangible thing that I personally call "touch" or "feel". You know what I mean. You've seen and heard guys that can make the guitar sit up and beg (I'm not talking sheer technique here) and at the same time make it sound like that they are not even trying. Van Halen is a great example of this. I'm a great example of the opposite :( Anyone interested in old VH, give Fair Warning a listen. That was Eddie at his peak - innovation, unbelievable TONE, and he played with such huge balls in those days.
I agree with this, which is why Tak Matsumoto is my favorite guitarist. At times, I simply forget that he's playing an actual instrument because of the sheer feeling of the music; it sounds - repeating myself here - incredibly human.

BTW - Jason Becker is amazing. His website is completely inspiring. I saw a clinic with Jason Becker and Marty Friedman shortly before he was hired by David Lee Roth and before he was diagnosed with ALS.
Indeed. I can't even comprehend what a blow it must've been when he got ALS. Apparently, he's been doing slightly better, though.

P.S - what did you mean when you said, "I can play triplets better than my roommate"? Just wondering...
It was just an example how I was better in a single area of guitar than my roommate, despite him being a much better guitarist than I am.