Suggestions

[sgx_d]

This thread is for suggestions, recommendations, and other ideas for the FF mod.

Just a recommendation for advertisment. www.planethalflife.com www.planetfortress.com both would be good choices to email about the mod.
You may be able to get additional artists if you advertised on the customize sites. C-TFC TFcustomized. Both would be good places.
Though you may or may not want to tell them before you finish the wed site. Of which we all are eagerly awaiting.

About the Pyro:
Speed, Health, and Armor are fine as they are. Their grenades are fine. Yes their IC does need a boost. The flame thrower may not need boosted depending on how it's fireing method is done. You would have to play test with it before you could decide on it's power.
Alt fire - unlit napalm. Best idea for pyro yet. The more napalm put on an area the more damage faster. But it would need a cap on ammount placeable in an area.

HWguy -
I'd keep it close to the same except this would be the only class to get a type of recoil. Anyone that has used the Sven Coop AC knows what I mean by this. Standing the crosshair shakes considerably. Ducking alot less. But movement must be kept while firing. Just keep em slow as shit.

Movement changes:
plz no double jump. UT is fun and all but leave it to UT.

Perhaps we could get someone to alter the animations for climbing a ladder... sliding up a ladder backwords without even touching it is kinda funny lookin don't you think?

Trimping... never played Q3 or it's fortress mod. But the idea i got was it was like ramp sliding except more vertical boost.

Chop hop... script kiddies when will you grow up?

The new engine will have new movement methods of it's own. We will just have to wait and see what is turns out like.

Also if you need anything let us know.

[|2on]

i think u guys should integrate the thing that sparkies had that would tell you your location automatically, that would be helpful for newbs and for experienced players.

[bowser]

i like the way tfc is, i'd just suggest fixin all the bugs :D

[jabroni]

i don't mean to be a prude, but i say just disable scripting all together. if anything, reload scripts only. ok i do mean to be a prude.

[Milosenpotion]

Make explosions more realistic and lock their transparancy so both sides have nothing to cry about. :)

[FragCore]

make an auto-reload script built in.

it would be cool if a player(s) could boost another player ((without all the stupid 'stand on my head' crap) where one guy creates a step with both of his hands and the other steps in it). and it would be cool if like 2 players could boost 1 player even higher (using the use key on each other by holding it down for, lets say, 2 seconds. weapon disappears. after use key is let go, previous weapon is pulled back up). i think it makes the game more team-oriented, which is always good in any game like this.

maybe make the spy able to change his speed to the speed of the class he disguises to (also adds on to team work in the sense that they have to use more comms).

medic being able to heal himself, but at a fairly slow rate (a bit faster than tfc's medic though).

[Klone]

make it so spies can disguise as enemy sentry guns

[Malice]

make it so spies can disguise as enemy sentry guns

fuck that in prac ill be clanging u :P

[FragCore]

lolol. how would that work
*spy's arm becoms a cannon and legs split into 3 legs as he bends over*

[SouthernRebel]

make sure there are a/d maps..not just ctf :)

[Cann]

needs more cowbell.

[public_slots_free.mL]

i like the concs being able to move pipes around, thats a cool idea. I think if you give the pyro a double shotty it will be too strong. The spy speed change might be a bit much as well. Imagine a scout with spy armor and health... Other than that i already like tfc so, the auto reload script built in is also a good idea.

EDIT: oh yeah and make the medic heal faster. Who has time to hang around and get health at that slow a rate.

[FragCore]

Imagine a scout with spy armor and health...

yeah i forgot to say that he can only change to the speed of classes that are below or equal to his own speed.

i thought of that like 2 nights ago

[Mulchman MM]

lolol. how would that work
*spy's arm becoms a cannon and legs split into 3 legs as he bends over*

That would definately be an interesting animation...

[b-buddy]

get rid of the fuckin super shotty from some classes like hwguy an soldier, thats all they use! an make sold rockets 5

[FragCore]

make the map names like f_2fort or ff_2fort ^_^

[SoulEdge]

give soldier 5 rockets and make each do less damage than they do now

[Bradster]

You know guys, you realize, we can make patches if a class is to strong as a majority of the community thinks it is. We aren't valve, let's just try what we can.

[Pet]

Default training maps for each class.

[Ser]

lol
tvs and cameras?
thats fuckin hilarious

[Levicon]

I dont think the grav gun has any place in a TF mod. Ya, its cool, but that doesnt mean it needs to be a new addition. You didnt see the Redeemer in UT Fortress, and if Doom 3 Fortress had continued, they would not have added the BFG.

I would suggest changing what needs to be changed, beef up pyro some how, and make it a viable class. I liked that idea of the pyro being able to 'dump' the fuel, allow only so many cells to be on the ground at one time (like demo pipes).

Tone down HW some how. One way would be to, as mentioned before, link rate of movment of the HW, to the inaccuracy of the AC. Faster movement => More inaccurate the stream.

But for the most part, don't change the rest of the classes, at least for now. The more aspects of the game that change, the harder it will be to balence.

[Scorcher]

Don't make pipes or SG's concable. Scouts would be too strong. Part of being a scout is being able to avoid both of those.

Reduce grenade blast circumfrence.

I say leave the game as it is, then tweak it.

[Sterkarm]

Spy has invisibility for a short period of time (maybe 2 - 5 seconds). When he fires, he becomes visibile. Invisibility takes a few minutes to regenerate.

[munkys]

port tfc maps to the mod, a lot of what keeps new players away is the fact that they're to lazy to dl custom maps, i dotn mean all of them but a lot of the popular custom maps like openfire.
let medics start with 3 concs too

as soon as i posted this i read the post above mine with spies going invisible for a brief period, thats an awesome idea but i'd make it so one of the defensive classes has the ability to see them

[ooz]

-nails that go faster so u cant dodge them :(

-armour drops along with a bag after u die

-stronger pyro flame damage and ic

-the spy is the same speed as the class he is disgused as, but when he disguses as a class faster than him, he must drop armour. And when he disgues as a class slower than him he does not gain any more armour.

-faster hw = recoil and more spred

-make single shotty slightly stronger

-engy can "make" more bags at a time with more cells and metal in them

[FragCore]

let medics start with 3 concs too

good call!

[ArSoNOpTiKS]

make it so spies can disguise as enemy sentry guns

Why's my sg spitting blood and stuff when I beat it with the wrench?

[kulite]

no way everyone is going to agree on a certain set of rules and ways this game should be made. i think it would be the ultra super keen if y'all set it up in a way so things could be turned off an on with variables. like bhop (if you manage to program that in) scripting, sprites and external models, shit likee that. anything and everything. make it server dependent so everything can be regulated within the game, so external plugins aren't required. dunno how much extra work this would be..

this has probably been suggested but oh well.

[Corsair]

Kulite: While you touch on some customization issues, it should also be noted that no matter what they do with gameplay, whether they change it or keep it static in respect to current TFC play, someone will be unhappy.

There are a lot of people who were quite happy with Soldier/Medic fortress, while others (like myself to a degree) would love to see more useful snipers and pyros and the like. Seems to me that something is wrong if a game is 75% reliant on only two classes.

But not everyone agrees with me. I'm curious more about what the team is planning on doing in this regard, and I'd love to see a generic "about" document put up on the forum.

[caedere]

Class tweaks I'd make if it were up to me:
Scout: Make all HH concs easier to a) help newbs learn, and b) Make matches that much more exciting, as even the worst clans could conc well on bad servers.
Sniper: Have the aim move around a bit when zoomed in (Far Cry style), lower the sniper rifle damage a little bit, maybe give them a second grenade type.
Soldier: Increase rocket speed a little, limit of two grenades, Fix nail exploit ffs.
Demo: Make pipebomb traps concable, but not too much. I'd have it work just like how concs now: If the pipe barely hits the outside edge of the conc radius, it goes far..if its right in the middle, it moves little to none.
Medic: Make diseases expire after a certain period of time, Fix HH concs (See scout).
HWGuy: Make the conc effect random and hard to predict for AC. Also make their heavy armor vunlerable to...
Pyro: Can toast any HW much easier, Rockets travel as fast as Soldiers', increased flame damage for all fire weapons/grens.
Spy: Allow one feign every 5 seconds or so, but all feigns (Not sfeigns) are now shown on the scoreboard (A randomly determined person on the other team kills spy with a random weapon).
Engie: No more teles.

This would make matches faster paced & definitely more O heavy, which would eventually turn out to be more fun for both O and D. I also think you'd start seeing Pyros in matches regularly.

[SadbutTrue]

yeah, i wouldn't take the shotty away either, but one could argue if you kept the same type of emp, give him the gravity gun, and he can build all the stuff in my list, AND you weaken grenades (the best way to kill an engy), then you might have to weaken him like that. But i agree, you have to leave him the shotty.

And I'm telling you, the video camera thing could be pretty freaking cool. :)

and scorcher... i think if you let scouts have the concing sgs and pipes thing, you'd be enabling scouts just another, slightly more interesting way of getting around stuff. Like I said, level 3 sgs wouldn't move, and pipes in tight corridors wouldn't move or would just bounce aroundt he same general area. It would only help in a few instances.

And I love the idea of letting scouts use the speed from a conc to run up a wall (maybe only certain shaped walls, if you're worried about it murdering gamplay). Opens up so many possibilities. And a soldier can sitll just shoot them down.

I'm really a fan of these two, but the scout running up a wall thign would probably have to implemented later, after a working mod was out, as it is a pretty big change.

I would make the tranq and nail rounds faster, though they shouldn't be as fast as hitscan weapons (it also shouldn't take them 5 seconds to go across the 2fort yard).

[Janus]

Class tweaks I'd make if it were up to me:
Scout: Make all HH concs easier to a) help newbs learn, and b) Make matches that much more exciting, as even the worst clans could conc well on bad servers.
Sniper: Have the aim move around a bit when zoomed in (Far Cry style), lower the sniper rifle damage a little bit, maybe give them a second grenade type.
Soldier: Increase rocket speed a little, limit of two grenades, Fix nail exploit ffs.
Demo: Make pipebomb traps concable, but not too much. I'd have it work just like how concs now: If the pipe barely hits the outside edge of the conc radius, it goes far..if its right in the middle, it moves little to none.
Medic: Make diseases expire after a certain period of time, Fix HH concs (See scout).
HWGuy: Make the conc effect random and hard to predict for AC. Also make their heavy armor vunlerable to...
Pyro: Can toast any HW much easier, Rockets travel as fast as Soldiers', increased flame damage for all fire weapons/grens.
Spy: Allow one feign every 5 seconds or so, but all feigns (Not sfeigns) are now shown on the scoreboard (A randomly determined person on the other team kills spy with a random weapon).
Engie: No more teles.

This would make matches faster paced & definitely more O heavy, which would eventually turn out to be more fun for both O and D. I also think you'd start seeing Pyros in matches regularly.

1) HH's aren't that hard, they just take practice and being able to work with your system settings and internet relability. I would possibly like to see a flashbang for a scout instead of the caltrops QWTF style.

2)Good idea for sniper (moving aim while zoomed), prone would be nice, and the secondary grenade type, maybe flashbang?

3) For HWguy, you should still be able to aim while conced, it should just be more difficult, I like the idea of the screen moving randomly while the aim is still at the crosshair causing you to constantly reposition it.

4) I dunno about the deathmessage idea for feigning that would messup your own teammates too, besides the scores wouldn't count and it would just confuse too many people.

5) For engi (with no teles), I don't have anything really for or against the teleporter. I could definitely live without it though.

I dont think the grav gun has any place in a TF mod. Ya, its cool, but that doesnt mean it needs to be a new addition. You didnt see the Redeemer in UT Fortress, and if Doom 3 Fortress had continued, they would not have added the BFG.

I think you are kinda comparing apples to oranges here. The gravity gun helps implement the physics in the game, gives another small bump for the engineer (could take away the rail gun for this), I would think the lvl 1 and lvl 2 sgs could be picked up (and to move them would be slower with lvl 2 than lvl 1 etc). It would just save the disassemble and build time.

[[X-Rok]]

-the concs affecting pipes is an awesome idea. not so sure about it affecting SG's though... maybe not knock it over, but smack the rotating part of the gun to a side, making it have to re-target.

-2 firing modes for HW is also a good idea, one weaker but allowing you to move, basically the same as current, and an alt fire that kicks up the bullet rate, but spreads way out if you're not crouched or moving.

-pyro's flamethrower alt-fire: turning on/off the flame that ignites what you fire. mouse1 fires flame, hit mouse2, flame goes out, mouse1 fires non-lit fuel to cover area, mouse2 turns flame back on, mouse1 fires flame and ignites fuel. obviously a limit would be needed, and the fuel could possibly fade away slowly as it waits to be lit.

-snipers secondary grenade? how about a flashbang? makes sense to me, and would actually give them a chance to play some offense, instead of sittin around on the battlements all day...

-grenade explosions and ear-ringing effect... possibly. only at very close range, otherwise it'd be too constant in a game where explosions are the main weapon. rocket bodyshots, grenades that explode right after they bounce off your face...

---tweakable weapon/armor loadouts, to allow for personal customization while playing a class. perhaps in designated 'light', 'medium', and 'heavy' loadouts, or fully customizeable, trading armor and weapon upgrades/downgrades at the cost of speed on a change by change basis.

ex: a 'light' medic, with 60 armor instead of 100, a bit of a speed increase (about 320 -> 340), regular nailgun instead of the super, and starting with a 3rd conc.
ex: a 'heavy' demo, armor up to 150, speed down from 280 to 250, and super shotty instead of regular...
ex: 'heavy' scout, up to 90/75 h/a from 75/50, supershotty instead of single, speed down to 375 from 400...

and related to the variable arsenals for each class, varying models. at least a male/female version of each class, and if the changeable weapon/armor choices were implemented, various models to accomodate them. extra armor for the heavy loadouts, less for the light. or, if there remains just one loadout, perhaps different styles, for each of the previous iterations of Fortress. TFC new and old models, qwtf and whatnot...

[hawk]

i think it would be the ultra super keen if y'all set it up in a way so things could be turned off an on with variables.
Completely agree. I think that having server variables would be great appeasing multiple groups simultaneously. People who hated bhop and people who love bhop. People who hate customizations, people who love customizations. etc...

[mag]

Off the top of my head, I agree with the Trimping idea and making the Pyro and Sniper more useful. However, I don't exactly know how =/

I suppose, you could lessen the damage done by sniper in the chest, and the only one shot kill would be the head... or something, I dunno

[caedere]

1) HH's aren't that hard, they just take practice and being able to work with your system settings and internet relability.

HH concs can be a bitch when you have high ping/choke/loss, no matter how well you've perfected it. A tad more leeway in the timing would reduce server complaints & make games where one team had a considerably lower team ping than the other a bit more even.

4) I dunno about the deathmessage idea for feigning that would messup your own teammates too, besides the scores wouldn't count and it would just confuse too many people.

Perhaps not having it show in the deathmessages for your team would be better. It'd confuse the D, but that's arguably what spies are made to do anyway. Sometimes it'd be pretty obvious (i.e. Enemy scout killed spy with Rocket Launcher) and other times it'd be believable (Enemy engy killed spy with SG). Maybe Gizmo's burrowing idea is better, but something needs to be done to improve this ability.

[ODAY]

a few suggestions of mine

conc effect/exposion: i agree with milos make the explosion trancparency un editable.. and for the conc effect ithink a little bit of blurryness in the hud would be more attractive then just ur surrondings moveing.

Movement : i think bringing in all the movements with out a speed cap would be really intresting... also keep the concing the same.. rjumping and nade jumping and stuff like that i dont think need to be changed

The engy: well if u take away the railgun, and give him the grav gun isent that sorta just makeing the ng a little more usefull. If you did give the grav gun to someone i deffintily think it should be engy, and .. maby.. just maby give the engy 2 emps?..just a thought.

Hwguy: i like the secondary fire for the hw guy ..someone said the fireing rate should change and stuff like that.. maby you can keep the special skill .. but the hwguys special skill can be beefed up fireining rate.. i like that idea. If you did that tho you might take off about 50-100 armour points 300 is too much for a class like that.. imo.

Medic: make him heal himself faster i also liked that idea. Also give the medic the ability to drop his medkit for someone to use i think that would be really kool.. not sure if its possible but it be awseoum.

Pyro: beef up his ic and flamethrower..other then that keep it the same

sniper: take away that cursed dot.... and make the class less .. i dunno annoying if that makes any sense.

demo: dont change a thing :D ..cept for maby making it easier to change detpack times maby a button on a menu.

a few last things..beef up the baby shotty please!!! .oh and i also rember reading somewere about makeing spy pills more effective for there hallucination rather then there hp/armour destroying which was a good idea.

and will someone please give the scout a better primary nade.....

very last thing i have to comment on this.. give the rpg a little less power at close distance and a little more at far

thats about all i got.. yeah im a newb so i dont matter...

[TkMasTaH]

engy+gravgun-railgun = OMG

[Milosenpotion]

lol Gizmo, when I was reading your post I was like "what's he talking about czars for?" ;p
I dunno about anybody else, but with alot of these suggestions, I see the medic being just too powerful. The medic is already seen on o every round because it's able to do so much, and allowing it to regenerate quicker/conc sgs and pipes out the way would just give more reason for clans to run a 4 man med o every round and also discourage new players from trying scout on o.

[eXCeLL]

Didn't most of you want a straight port of tfc to Source? I know you're all trying to make the game better, but don't go overboard.

btw.. if u could conc pipes off a flag, def. demo would be useless

[sev]

Strife I'm serious, get on irc or else I'm coming over to your house, and it won't be pretty I promise

[Koron]

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with having many major gameplay alterations be server side settings. If you get a hodgepodge of server configurations, everyone is going to be playing something just slightly different, and no one will have any clue what the fuck is going on.

[flewk]

And one last thing, please please please make it so that when someone gets full ammo/grenades, they can't grab another resupply bag. I fucking hate it when someone takes all the bags.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^omfg yes

I just also wanted to say that I think any changes should be minor and subtle, yet effective.. like the quote above. The game must remain largely true to its heritage, and pay tribute to its predecessors. Once that is established, THEN start thinking about changes that SERIOUSLY affect gameplay.

Maybe it would be wise to re-create the game as is, and then work from there.

[flewk]

PYRO: yeah i like all the ideas about beefing up the pyro and the whole pouring fuel and lighting it to make traps and stuff.... BUT for gods sake, get rid of the visual obstruction when you are on fire, or do something different

I HATE THAT

[SoulEdge]

if u choose to make a grav gun make it only work on inorganic material like in hl2. (if what i heard is true theres 2 kinds of grav gun, the first can only move inorganic material while the second can do organic (i.e. people) as well)

[Janus]

lol Gizmo, when I was reading your post I was like "what's he talking about czars for?" ;p
I dunno about anybody else, but with alot of these suggestions, I see the medic being just too powerful. The medic is already seen on o every round because it's able to do so much, and allowing it to regenerate quicker/conc sgs and pipes out the way would just give more reason for clans to run a 4 man med o every round and also discourage new players from trying scout on o.
I would agree with that Milos. I am starting to think (and making my decision) that concing pipes would be detrimental to the gameplay, it would overpower the medic and make the demo useless on defense.


and pipes in tight corridors wouldn't move or would just bounce aroundt he same general area. It would only help in a few instances.



HH concs can be a bitch when you have high ping/choke/loss, no matter how well you've perfected it. A tad more leeway in the timing would reduce server complaints & make games where one team had a considerably lower team ping than the other a bit more even.

Let's remember though that HHing was all because of a glitch in the first game I believe, so with the problems with choke/loss/ping were probably going to happen because of this. Unless you want to make nade timing client side... which I think would lead up to cheating too much (make the nades only take 2 seconds or less to detonate).

but what about those many instances where the flag is not in a tight corridor? Granted the game is somewhat unbalanced with a bias towards defense (depending on the map of course), but I think that would hurt the gameplay too much to be useful.

Scouts running up the walls I think would be a little too weird for the gameplay, they can already conc past the people, so no real reason for them to run on the walls if they would fly by anyways. Plus only needing certain walls would require mappers to have to have pre-determined spots where the scout could only conc past and not which I think would be beyond what we would want.

[N4P4LM]

Originally Posted by DoN_Chico
And one last thing, please please please make it so that when someone gets full ammo/grenades, they can't grab another resupply bag. I fucking hate it when someone takes all the bags.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^omfg yes

im not sure if that's something i'd really like to see. Sure, it's extremely annoying on pubs when someone is always taking all the bags, but think about in matches...resupplying should be something you have to think about (even subconsiously) when you're playing a match. It's just part of the game...if your teammate takes all the ammo bags, and you go to resupply or respawn, well then you're just shit out of luck and you have to wait or go without any.

wouldnt wanna make too many changes that make the game watered down to the point where you could play it in your sleep.

[Jimyd]

Ok my suggestion is to remove the 170% speedcap. Now i know that may be extreme, but TFC is suppose to be a fast paced game. Not that it is not right now, just i think it would be better that way.

AN ALTERNATIVE to this would be when you hit the 170% speedcap mark, you dont get shot back down to 160% speed like it is now. So basically keep it capped, just dont have that anoying slow down everytime you get your bhop going. <---- This is probly the better choice if anything.

[FragCore]

my current disagreements
1. i think adding the 2nd AC firemode would make new-comers want to play hw a lot (BECAUSE THEY CARE ABOUT PERSONAL SCORE :mad: ) , fun idea though
2. and also the gravity gun with ng would be cool, cept that, too, would make new-comers to play ng :(
3. I wouldnt add the 2ndary attack for shotty (3 shells). everybody would not use normal fire mode and scouts/meds would die tons faster.
4. If the ringing from the nades is annoying, dont add it (i havent played hl2 yet, so i dunno)
5. "the ability to drop his medkit for someone to use." interesting idea, but that takes away what makes the medic a medic
^this is all to conserve the originality of tf

my current agreements (copied/pasted)

1. "beefing up the pyro" <-will now make pyro a playable D (and a strong O) class
2. "any changes should be minor and subtle, yet effective"
3. "rjumping and nade jumping and stuff like that i dont think need to be changed"
4. "will someone please give the scout a better primary nade..... "
....^ if you keep caltrops, they should be smaller, and more of them thrown (harder to dodge, more effective)
5. "ultra super keen if y'all set it up in a way so things could be turned off an on with variables."
6. "Incorporate "double vision" into the conc and/or hallucination visual" <-- you bettttterrr do that
7. make an auto-reload script built in.
8. spy being able to change his speed to the same class as he disguised (if class is slower or equal to spy)
9. my whole boost idea

and we can always experiment with things heh

[Jimyd]

the pyro shooting unlit napalm idea is cool, but it already a very strong class.

I think giving the pyro a double shotty would make it too powerful. But maybe make the ic do a tad bit more dmg. And make the flamethrower a continous stream.

Double vision from spy pills i agree. Conc ringing effect, but dont make it too loud and anoying.

[billdoor]

Let's remember though that HHing was all because of a glitch in the first game I believe, so with the problems with choke/loss/ping were probably going to happen because of this. Unless you want to make nade timing client side... which I think would lead up to cheating too much (make the nades only take 2 seconds or less to detonate).

The current problem with TFC grenades is that after pressing the prime button, you have to wait for the server to receive that message and then have to wait for it to send the "play timer, show icon" message back to you. We should be able to make the timing more consistent without compromising security by having the client play the timer an display the icon immediately when the player presses the prime button, but leaving the timer itself on the server. This should reduce inconsistency between having a high and low latency, and could even help with those situations in TFC where your "prime" packet gets lost and you don't see or hear the timer for a second or so. We'll give it a try and see if it works better than the current system.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Many of these ideas we've had ourselves, but it's useful to see how much support there is behind each one. We won't comment on the gameplay ideas individually, but you can be sure that we read them all :)

[nam]

team radar like in cs. When somone is being shot at it turns that icon red if its on your radar. This allows offenses to be more cordinated and defense to not rely on comms so much in pubs and such. Also have an option to turn it off if wanted.

I like the idea of Engineers with gravity gun to move their level 1 and 2 sg's. I also like the sg camera idea like in Quake. I dont think that makes the class any better just more complicated and harder to master i guess.

I like the idea of HW having 2 firing modes. Should make the 2nd firing mode do more damage but also makes them easier to get killed maybe taking their armor off while using it and not able to move hardly at all while using it.

I think scouts should have smoke grenades like in CS instead of caltrops. Helps them out and also helps their team out.

Spys and Snipers, I think spys should have the ability to go invisible if not moving. But have it as a grenade type deal, where they can only do it once a run or however many they have instead of spy pills. Also the sniper has it too but only can use it while he is not moving as well, this would give the sniper a 2nd grenade type thing. kind of like halo 2 invisible where you can see them close up but not from a distance type thing. Also tranqs would make people knocked out, for maybe 2 or 3 seconds. but make tranq reload a process that takes like 5 seconds to do. That would be a cool thing to add.

pyro, i think the idea of setting a gas trap is cool. Where you can let out gas and be able to ignite it with a flame and if you dont ignite it, it just goes away. doing this takes away a increasing amount of gas cells the longer you let the gas out. Pyros werent made to rocket jump or anything like that, so i don tthink you should change their rocket power. also maybe make thier rockets more of a blue pipe type aiming thing, where you have to lob it, but make it more damage on direct hits and such.

some other things, auto reload built in would be nice. I like the idea of concs moving pipes, but not to the extent where you can move them a distance with 1 conc maybe just a few feet or so even with the perfect conc placement. Just so the demo has to keep an eye on his trap. I think detpacks should be able to set on walls to make them harder to see. Make the game so people cant customize it. Like cs where you know everybody is seeing the same thing.

I also think you should be able to fire rockets faster, instead of having to wait so long. Like being able to fire 1 2 3 4 really quick then having to reload. Maybe make them slightly less powerfull.

I also think grenades need a smaller blast radius. But make them have metal fly from the blast so it hits you like a nail from a nail grenade would.

I think most of the modifications arent changing the game just giving people the opportunity/urge to play other classes in matches because it adds another dimension to the class without making any drastic changes to the gameplay.

I definately think you need a good group of play testers for this and id like to be one of them :D

[FragCore]

sniper being invisible while not moving = :(, not knowing where he is in the yard for well, for example, is enough to drive a man mad (me mad, anyway)

and i think we're all playtesters

[Ignatz]

1. please make SOME kinds of minor changes that take advantage of the HL2 physics. i think the engy with the grav gun is a great idea because, he won't have any barrels and crap lying around to smash people with, so his only use for it will be to pick up and move his built units like sg's and teles, and also to pick up grenades and throw them back. So in defending the SG he'll have to choose between wrenching and avoiding grens, shotgunning attackers, or using the GG to throw grens away. Could make for some very complex balancing acts.

2. Either make a class playable and worthwhile or get rid of it. pyro of course is the class that needs the most to either be improved or dumped. the alt-fire gas/napalm idea is the best new idea of any kind put forth so far.

3. Don't forget about attack/defend play! it's a big part of TFC now.

4. PLEASE don't make this mod a "straight TFC port to Source." TFC is an old game. If your mod doesn't bring something new to the table, it will not succeed. I know I won't play it if it's just putting lipstick on the same ol pig.

[sgx_d]

many of these ideas are interesting but would change the gameplay far too much.
The concing of pipes is only with respect to the physics. It must be do-able. If you havn't met skilled demos they know how to more than make up for having their pipes removed. Complaining about them getting moved has the same value of them getting emped. Only real difference is the pipes are in other areas.
concs affecting rockets and other objects. Good idea. It would seriously make the game more interesting with the random way the game can play.

knocking over a SG would be a good idea. (i'm an ng) but it would be nice to have it do more than blow up. make it able to shoot if someone enters its sights. and also make it so and NG and other player could pick it backup if you had 2 players trying to +use it.

a good scout doesnt need to be able to run on walls to be able to get past D

Perhaps a monitor built into the dispenser. It has a display screen that goes to waste. you would need a little camera to build elsewhere. "build 3"?
I say it would make players more prone to watch that than their positions. People tend to fuck up and make the game more interesting. that and what happens when you blow up a disp when someone is close? :P

as for the gren timers please help us dialup out. client side timing would be one hell of a booster. there is several server mods (amx?) that forces certain items to be default. ax1... to prevent speed hacking your grenades force consistancy in timing.

removed script kiddies favorite lil toys fullupdate _special and other various waste of TFC shit.

[bergenhell]

im all for making the pyro stronger, but i think we can do that while changing almost nothing about the game.

if we take away the single and double shotgun, and replace it with the shotgun that is somewhere between the power of those two, i think that would be the best thing in the world. you could give the new shotgun to scouts (upgrade), medics (downgrade), engies (downgrade), soldiers (downgrade), hwg (downgrade), pyro (upgrade), spy (downgrade but with all the potential of feign animations and more useful spy pills...), and maybe demoman (upgrade but he may not need it).

i think 1 medium powered shotgun would be SO MUCH BETTER for this game than 2 differently powered shotguns. as is, every class aside from hw whores their supershotty, and the classes with the regular shotty *almost* never use it. i'd like to see the rpg be more important to soldiers and movement be more important to medics.

i'd like to see responses about the medium shotgun idea, cause i really hope its implemented.

[colin]

random thoughts:

medic: Almost perfect as is. Weaponry is near perfect (snailgun and nailgun are great as is). Speed and grenade set is near perfect (yes, starting with 2 concs). Health/armor is fine.

scout: Swap out caltrops for almost anything else. I'd rather have 5/5 more h/a than caltrops.

engineer: The grav gun in place of the railgun would be interesting. however, being able to move anything more substantial than projectiles and grenades would be a huge mistake imo. Moving sentry guns is just a bad idea. concs disabling sg's is also a bad idea, imo. If they did, i'd hope that it wouldn't last for longer than 2 seconds tops. one of the most interesting things in TF gameplay is pulling the flag in the face of a sentry gun. i'd hate to see that dumbed down.

hwguy: I don't think he needs to be made worse, strictly speaking. I think he needs to be made harder to play. A REAL conc effect will balance him by itself. I see a lot of knee-jerk reactions and proposals for unnessecary changes.

soldiers: Same as medic. Adding a fifth rocket, making rockets very slightly faster, and reducing their damage would be interesting. For example, if rockets currently do 25 damage each, reduce them to 18 (5 to compensate for having an extra and 2 for the speed). Speed may be fine as is, but it's a suggestion so meh. Honestly though, when it comes down to it, soldiers don't need any changes.

spy: This guy is difficult. Something needs to be done with his gas nades and he could use an upgrade to disguising and feigning. All I can say is that any form of total invisibilty would be dumb. There'd be an invisible spy waiting for the relay every time with only hw's and pyro's having an efficient way of searching for them. I haven't considered changes to the spy much, so I have nothing to offer here, really.

sniper: Remove charge. Remove massive knockback on shots. Increase base sniper rifle damage. Greatly decrease lag between shots (1 second sounds good). Remove annoying knockback on AR, lower damage, increase rate of fire. Maybe add clips? This is starting to sound like CS (albeit a faster, more intuitive version), but maybe that would help ease outsiders into FF. I wouldn't give them a second grenade unless something relevant can be cooked up.

demoman: +10 armor, if aything. Or even giving them heavy type armor (iirc they have medium as is). PLEASE do not make concs have a substantial effect on pipes. Being able to move them any more than 3-4 feet would ENTIRELY fuck over the demoman.

pyro: You could take this guy any number of ways. I sort of liked the idea of giving him a way to set the ground on fire besides napalms. I'd suggest making the IC have that effect. Make the flamethrower like the one in RTCW, where it's a steady stream and it reflects realistically off on walls and obstacles. If you guys manage to turn this guy into a useful, balanced class, then I will bow to you...

[Rimuladas]

grenades- make them like explosions in hl2, if your to close it turns the sound down so you cant hear.

concs- make concs on nme players super exagerated so it removes conc aim all together. Conc aim is the stupidest thing ever, and totally defeats the purpose of the conc when thrown at an enemy. Make it so they cannot use _special to stay in one spot and not move when a conc is also thrown at them.


pyro- i really like the unlit napalm idea, and please give them a SS. That class would be very playable in leagues at that point.

[Milosenpotion]

im not sure if that's something i'd really like to see. Sure, it's extremely annoying on pubs when someone is always taking all the bags, but think about in matches...resupplying should be something you have to think about (even subconsiously) when you're playing a match. It's just part of the game...if your teammate takes all the ammo bags, and you go to resupply or respawn, well then you're just shit out of luck and you have to wait or go without any.

wouldnt wanna make too many changes that make the game watered down to the point where you could play it in your sleep.

nah, it just doesn't make sense to me that you can pick up more bags than you can hold and not armor/health. I think the bag idea is great.

I also agree with removing exploits such as _special. Maybe defrag will be able to convince people that ex_interp is a valid command and it won't be locked anymore.

[JenovaProjekt]

Medic - With the medic and dropping the med pack, make it so he only drops it when he dies that way the d who killed him can use his med pack, make it something small like 25 health

Engi - grav gun is a cool idea, he could pick up his dispenser and throw it at enemies


Ideas stole straight out of halo
- being able to melee without having to switch to the crowbar
- Killing a person from behind with a single melee, maybe make it crowbar only
- Sticky grenades might be cool, could be second nade for scout\sniper

i like the - hw alt fire idea(faster fire = less accuracy/slower movement)
demo - pipes moving with conc would be cool, maybe make it so the conc has to explode on the ground and not over the pipes

[[GoW]DarkLight]

omg its jenovaprojekt

[JenovaProjekt]

DarkLight']omg its jenovaprojekt

Hola dl, i dont post much cause beez likes to ban me :mad:

[Nuggs|*1]

skimming please

as well as more bhop

[TkMasTaH]

how about spy is invisible if hes standing still?

[FragCore]

Medic - With the medic and dropping the med pack, make it so he only drops it when he dies that way the d who killed him can use his med pack, make it something small like 25 health
or his own teammates !

how about spy is invisible if hes standing still?
if this does become a reality, it would be cool if certain classes can see him (demo through his visor, hw through his visor/lil glasses thing, spy through his monocal or whatever its called)

I think that if they [spies] are shot they should spark as well as bleed since the "hologram"
if a hologram is shot, i think the bullets go through, or at least they would in sci-fi movies/shows

[Klone]

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with having many major gameplay alterations be server side settings. If you get a hodgepodge of server configurations, everyone is going to be playing something just slightly different, and no one will have any clue what the fuck is going on.

^hes exactly right

also, about spies slowing down to the speed of the class that they disguised as, its stupid. How is a spy gonna fake out an hw and knife him when hes as slow as a soldier? nobody ever falls for a spies disguise, even if they use a script that slows them down. basically its only purpose is for getting by sentry guns.

[Klone]

- Killing a person from behind with a single melee, maybe make it crowbar only


i dont like this idea, this ability is for spies only :(

[yank]

concs- make concs on nme players super exagerated so it removes conc aim all together. Conc aim is the stupidest thing ever, and totally defeats the purpose of the conc when thrown at an enemy.
i agree with him. I too think there should be no such thing as "conc aim." A conc should do what it's designed to do--throw off the enemy so that you can get by. I say this as if it's easy to be done.. but really its not.

Removing conc-aim altogether also raises balance issues. Given the same number of concs as now, classes like medics and scouts would be overpowering against a defense, throwing off the entire balance of the game. So here enlies the dilemma. Take away a few of the concs and you slow down the gameplay.. Take away conc aim and nobody will ever play d anymore. It's a tough decision.. hopefully someone can find some kind of middle ground.

[VP-]

Soldier = Faster rockets, 5 rockets, same reload, q3 damage, the gameplay is fast in tfc but the rockets are not.

Bring older bhop back to an extent. Slightly slowed down but faster than it is now.

that alone is my only qualm with tfc over the past years.

[DuM]

A built in cheat detector. For example have a built in match config that you can toggle with a command to turn it on or off. When this command is turned on it takes random screenshots of each players screen, logs commands and also records a demo for them. Some shit like that would be cool cuz VAC is crap.
HW-Weaken the ac.
Make grens less powerful.
Keep everything else the same ;p

[ooz]

how about this?

-while in spec/hltv have the flag/key a selectable class for the camera to lock on to in 3rd person
-spectators get sg visoin, and can lock on to sg in 3rd person

[JenovaProjekt]

screen shots -> jpg

[Janus]

looks too realistic imho there SV. I mean I like some of the ideas, but we need to keep the nailgun (it has been in tf since the early days), no vehicles (cept for like the train at shitdown2 etc). I like the gas idea for medic/pyro though.


The current problem with TFC grenades is that after pressing the prime button, you have to wait for the server to receive that message and then have to wait for it to send the "play timer, show icon" message back to you. We should be able to make the timing more consistent without compromising security by having the client play the timer an display the icon immediately when the player presses the prime button, but leaving the timer itself on the server. This should reduce inconsistency between having a high and low latency, and could even help with those situations in TFC where your "prime" packet gets lost and you don't see or hear the timer for a second or so. We'll give it a try and see if it works better than the current system.


thanks for confirming/explaining that for me there BD. That sounds like a good plan you guys got going.

[PHISH]

i agree with him. I too think there should be no such thing as "conc aim." A conc should do what it's designed to do--throw off the enemy so that you can get by. I say this as if it's easy to be done.. but really its not.

Removing conc-aim altogether also raises balance issues. Given the same number of concs, classes like medics and scouts would be overpowering against a defense, throwing off the entire balance of the game. So here enlies the dilemma. Take away a few of the concs and you slow down the gameplay.. Take away conc aim and nobody will ever play d anymore. It's a tough decision.. hopefully someone can find some kind of middle ground.

No it doesn't...because the game began with people having no conc aim and offense even more powerful concs and no hitscan, weak hwguys, and it was more balanced than in the current state.

[L0ki]

HL2 already saves images in jpeg format, with a cvar to control quality =P

[[BD]Sui]

Prevent cheats and exploits.

Prevent use of Hooks with the game

Make a system where if needed you could prevent the use of certain commands in scripts or lock aspects of the game if they are exploited.

The ability for server admins to run a "pure" server if they want it




I would like to see the score system redesigned. Either have team score only or extra things to bring more rewards for Teamwork and not just frags.





Weapon related:

Make spray weapons less effective at long ranges.

Replace single shotty with various pistols. This will require lots of balance issues so might not be worth it.

Tranq not silenced (when spy not disguised) to have a faster rate of fire.

Knife in head, from any direction, is instant death. I do not like one hit kills in most games but if a spy can get that close and manage to knife your head then you deserve to die. (Knife in back stays as is) Knife in ankles/feet slows defender. (when people stand on a feigned spy atleast the spy can get a little payback before they are beat to death with a crowbar)

If the IC had more "lift" to it then it might get more use on offense. Example would be able to go from floor up the grate on 2fort. ( I know you can do this with napalm assistance but that little extra height without napalm would be nice)

Tele either used by both teams or just by their team and disguised spy.

Conc's effect each class differently? Might be more trouble than worth. But I strongly feel that conc aim must be addressed. Say it is a skill all you want but it still effects the balance of the game in a bad way. (nades always have the same effect when you use then against someone, concs do not, what is used more against defenders in matches)



Class related:

Medic is fine.

Soldier is fine.

Engi is fine.

Pryo trades shotty for double shotty :)

Demo is fine.

Spy should be able to change weapons and seen name when disguised. Tranq without lose'n disguise?

Scouts are not suppose to be fighters but would be nice to see something other than number of concs decide between it and medics. (Scout should always have more than what medics can carry) Make the speed of scout over medic much higher.

Sniper should get some toy for a secondary gren. Remove the auto rifle. Give them super nail gun and pistol.

Hvy depends on what is decide about conc aim and range of spread weapons. Hvy is suppose to be a walking tank. But they need some sort of small weakness other than speed of movement.

[Milosenpotion]

No it doesn't...because the game began with people having no conc aim and offense even more powerful concs and no hitscan, weak hwguys, and it was more balanced than in the current state.

You're forgetting that people aren't gonna forget how to conc all of a sudden.

Keep concaim. Change the pattern or whatever, but make it available to be learned; it's one of the only fun things left in TFC.

[Telos]

I really think the engie should have grav gun as said before, but it shouldn't be used to move SGs. Otherwise, I could jsut build my SG in spawn, get it to level 3 in 2 seconds, then carry it to the spot. Take mortality_l for instance, or sd2, it takes an engie a trip to the resupply to get it to level 2. With even the fastest engie, thats plenty of time to take it down at level 1. If he can build in spawn, or right outside of it then carry it, taking down an SG would be almsot worthless.

[Janus]

we previously stated that he would be much slower while carrying it, it would not be able to shoot, and he would not be able to carry a lvl 3. (this is all hypothetical though)

[sgx_d]

Didn't most of you want a straight port of tfc to Source? I know you're all trying to make the game better, but don't go overboard.

btw.. if u could conc pipes off a flag, def. demo would be useless

I wouldn't call that making a demo useless. It would be quite similar to what an engy can do to a demo's pipes. However I'd say it still is an advantage to the demo really. Against an NG the pipes are completely gone. With a conc the pipes are still active. Part of upgrading to source is the source physics. Otherwise we could just make better looking models and shit and call it the TFC High def pack and go back to pubbing... yay...

Say on openfire_l you've got your pipes set on the flag. Med comes in and throws a conc in the center of em.

More than likely if the game stays true to realisic physics you will still have several pipes in that little crevice. and the others are spread out everywhere making more of a trap.

One thing you would want to do is make sure that the pipes are not unrealisticly scattered. Depending on the location of the conc to the pipes will decide on how they are moved. a foot above em and slightly to the side? 2-3 feet? same level? hell make those fuckers fly.

Demos! Don't knock them gettin moved without trying it 1st! U know when a med lands on em and HHs away they can very easily get thrown in the same direction as they are concing. Giving you all the more chance of blowin the fgt to hell.

also about the spy pills.. they were ment to be gas right? why not actually make them... gaslike? instead of lil yellow balls from Pac man...

also just out of curiousity any chance you could include NPC extras? I'd like to see some prison inmates stuck in the cells in rock2. Make em shout and scream when someone runs by. lol well maybe not but they could prove useful for k_thegame... anyone?

Edit:
An idea that I find interesting would be an ability new thanks to HL2. In game you could pick up items/barrels without the grav gun. It would be interesting to see what you could do if you included this in TFC. Perhaps being able to pick up and move a stray pipe from being too close to my SG. Picking up live grens and moving them around the corner to make a quick save? (llama spammers with their unprimed clusters) Like in dod you had to make a choice of either running or picking that stick up. Not so sure I would recommend it for dispenser but it's possible. This feature wouldn't affect much but could prove to be an interesting barrier maker with the random junk that can accumulate in levels.


also Source does support a larger map size and player count. With the increase of power to the mappers and potential player base. You could make larger ladders than 9v9. Thus also making a need for larger maps. True teamwork maps that could put the security(or generator) in another base than the flag.

any interest in playing much larger maps with a larger player base? or an I just a lone llama?

[MikeQuist[x7]]

Eliminate the Sniper.
Harsh I know, but listen.

People want a new class. They want fast pace. with quick shots and a little realism. Example: That damn cs. Anyways, whom here has gotten a chance to play Halo 2. Remember the nice battle rifle? The one that can fire 3 shots in a row. But then a pause. And the small zoom.

What if a new class is made to attract new people, and elimiate this sniper rape issue that scares off noobs. Equip them with a sleek BR, a few nades, a scope on the BR for limited zoom, and some nice weapon and give em a nice name.
Artillarymen?
Riflemen?
Idk, im not here to come up with fancy names. But this could be a possible and not too farfetched solution to eliminate the current noob pick-off the snipers are doing, and give the newcomers something that excites them.
But then again, this in essence probably sounds like every other suggestion and wont be taken seriously, so no point in me commenting.....

PS: The game will be complicated enough as it is. Making large maps would just use more server resources. The game might get better, but are computers arnt. I mean, im not bottom of the line, but at some point u have to negotiate the line between raising the game specs.

[sgx_d]

actually the sniper idea you mentioned just might not be a bad idea after all. Would make them 1/2way useful in a match. It would still be a sniper but not quite. However on 2nd thought. I'm afraid some people like sniper far too much just to drop it. Your riflemen idea could possibly work as a 10th class.

And as for it takeing up more resources. You are right however alot of people are going to be upgrading to be able to play well on HL2 and it's mods. I AM the bottom line for HL2. I AM too broke to get a new PC or good upgrades right now. However it is my intention to make a few extra bucks just for the reason of getting a new comp.

[crz]

im going to be one of those "i didnt read anything" guys and just post my suggestions.

make color changing an option. if you lock explosions or anything like that (so we dont have to worry about clear explosions or translucent ones or that crap), at least allow the user to be able to change the color or something with ingame options. i think itd be pretty cool if it had some built in customizeable options like weapons/crosshairs/huds/etc. not a ton, but just a few if people want different color schemes or if there are commonly used weapon models that arent valve default. i dont know how hard that would be, but i think itd be pretty nice.

[[TDA]Jiggles]

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with having many major gameplay alterations be server side settings. If you get a hodgepodge of server configurations, everyone is going to be playing something just slightly different, and no one will have any clue what the fuck is going on.

Agreed.



I also have to disagree somewhat with the people saying "lets just do a straight port then change things later". I have a few problems with that. First, Valve's TFC:S will most likely be a straight port, and which would the new player pick? Valve's version, or another version that's not significantly different?

"Well, we'll add those changes later," you say.
I think that's a bad idea.
A lot of players will give a new Mod exactly ONE chance to impress them - especially since HL2 will have many modifications to choose from.
I use NS as an example. I got many of my friends to try NS when it first came out - most of them did not like it. Since that time, I would argue, NS has been patched/updated until it's very different from its initial release. Still, none of my friends will give it another chance. FF could be the same way.

Of course, I'm not advocating that they add all the potential changes at once - it would be very difficult to playtest and balance the effect of each change. However, some changes simply make sense to add right away.

Also, I think many of the "non-ctf" style maps could benefit from the large map sizes allowed in Source. Map specific vehicles such as an APC on a hunted-style map would be cool: the attackers would have to deal enough damage, or throw enough debris on the road to force the hunted out of the APC. Plus, that would limit those god damn suicide auto-riflers from ending a round in 10 seconds :)

[EulogY^eS]

well, I personally dont think anything should be changed, but it's inevitable with a new version, so The unlit napalm is a great idea, It would have to be low powered though, it could make pyro into a demo/soldier, it'd be pretty cool to see a scout fly in, a pyro light his napalm and shoot the scout down with an ic.
About the spy being stronger, don't think so, it's already a very very powerful class if you get good enough at it, only thing i would think of changing would be give the tranq the double vision, it would be perfect, cuz any tranqed soldier can shoot the ground while a spy runs at him trying to knife, but if the soldier can't tell which spy to shoot, he'll have problems. Spy pills are already rediculously annoying, do not make them any better.

[Klone]

jiggles has a good point, also remember that you cant just do a straight port because we dont know if valve is going to do that or not, you need to make a new game, so it wont be a huge waste of time and effort

[Born_In_Xixax]

RE gravity gun for Engineers. I think it would be very interesting to have explosive barrels and wooden creates from HL2 (destroyable) created in respawn periodically, and able to be moved around - dragged slowly by anyone - lifted quickly/easily with engineer grav gun. Maybe undestroyables (like filing cabinets) could be fixed in number and strategically placed on some map.

This would allow defenses to create moveable barriers and obstacles, which are still moveable/destroyable. Think: dumping a couple of wooden creates and explosive barrels into the Y on openfire - interesting for D cause it can block concs or be a remote explosive, interesting for O cause they can be cover and the defensive base topology can be ever changing.

Some examples of coolness:

- Pyro fire can catch and spread to any wooden moveables, eventually destroying them
- Damaged barrels (partially burning) can be exploded with a shotgun burst to kill an enemy rounding a corner nearby
- Throwing a mirv into some engy's carefully constructed filing cabinet barricade and watching everything fly around damaging any defense that gets hit
- Using objects to create piles/ladders to gain access to otherwise difficult to reach spots. This could allow spies/hwguys into unexpected areas - defenders could find and move/destroy the piles to stop them.

How this would work on in actual game play is probably unknown and could be problematic if maps weren't designed right (i.e. llama engineers piling explosive barrels and/or filing cabinets into respawn doors, etc.) and I forsee most of the advantages being for the defense. But I can see it being extremely cool seeing what people dream up using this, and a worthy usage of arguably HL2's greatest gameplay innovation.

Also it would probably require little to no coding as it would use HL2 behaviour almost as is.

P.S. - I don't think SG, dispensers, etc. should be moveable via gravity gun, as one of the primary weaknesses of a SG is its fixed position - makes it easier to kill on your next run as offense, and encourages teamplay as teamates can report its position so you can avoid it/destroy it more easily. Also, imagine building your SG to level 3 in the safety of spawn or near spawn, then taking it to the battle area : lame.

[Janus]

RE gravity gun for Engineers. I think it would be very interesting to have explosive barrels and wooden creates from HL2 (destroyable) created in respawn periodically, and able to be moved around - dragged slowly by anyone - lifted quickly/easily with engineer grav gun. Maybe undestroyables (like filing cabinets) could be fixed in number and strategically placed on some map.

This would allow defenses to create moveable barriers and obstacles, which are still moveable/destroyable. Think: dumping a couple of wooden creates and explosive barrels into the Y on openfire - interesting for D cause it can block concs or be a remote explosive, interesting for O cause they can be cover and the defensive base topology can be ever changing.

Some examples of coolness:

- Pyro fire can catch and spread to any wooden moveables, eventually destroying them
- Damaged barrels (partially burning) can be exploded with a shotgun burst to kill an enemy rounding a corner nearby
- Throwing a mirv into some engy's carefully constructed filing cabinet barricade and watching everything fly around damaging any defense that gets hit
- Using objects to create piles/ladders to gain access to otherwise difficult to reach spots. This could allow spies/hwguys into unexpected areas - defenders could find and move/destroy the piles to stop them.

How this would work on in actual game play is probably unknown and could be problematic if maps weren't designed right (i.e. llama engineers piling explosive barrels and/or filing cabinets into respawn doors, etc.) and I forsee most of the advantages being for the defense. But I can see it being extremely cool seeing what people dream up using this, and a worthy usage of arguably HL2's greatest gameplay innovation.

Also it would probably require little to no coding as it would use HL2 behaviour almost as is.

P.S. - I don't think SG, dispensers, etc. should be moveable via gravity gun, as one of the primary weaknesses of a SG is its fixed position - makes it easier to kill on your next run as offense, and encourages teamplay as teamates can report its position so you can avoid it/destroy it more easily. Also, imagine building your SG to level 3 in the safety of spawn or near spawn, then taking it to the battle area : lame.
what if only lvl 1 or max lvl 2sgs were capable of being moved then?

I would also agree with what you said after stating about the debris. It would give the defense even more of an advantage. Mainly because the offense is always in a state of motion, there is little stoppage to "hide" from defenders. Normally it is an in-kill/touch-die-respawn rinse and repeat operation.


Spy pills are already rediculously annoying, do not make them any better.

they are annoying for the wrong reason though. they are annoying because they take away health/armor and move people out of the way, they also look nothing like "gas" and the hallucinations are a joke.

[Koron]

Perhaps if the movement effects of gas grenades did not stack as they do now they would be tolerable.

[unfy]

Remove times you died being shown on tab screen, makes for less whoring of respawn not having to worry about a kills/death ratio. (like all new players do)

[16Valve]

good idea unfy, cept it would be kinda hard to do tryouts and say "20 deaths then you're done" you'd have to count etc. It'd just be a bit more confusing, but people would do it anyway. >:E

Just let one of the spec's count then. There's almost always one (or several) spec's watching.

[[TDA]Jiggles]

A bunch of games have tried not keeping track of individual scores. Usually they end up giving in to demand and including this feature.

[Rimuladas]

No it doesn't...because the game began with people having no conc aim and offense even more powerful concs and no hitscan, weak hwguys, and it was more balanced than in the current state.


Yea, i think removing the concaim al together will just take it back to when alot of us started (1999). Those who whine about not being able to shoot conced, can die with tfc.

i also support the idea of being able to move pipes with concs.
i also support the idea of being able to use your dispenser to see what your sg sees, or somthing similar.



I dont know if this has been mentioned, but maybe a change for the scout.
Change his caltrops to smoke grenades.

[Double_D]

I've never been a fan of the conc-aim. The figure-eight, dizzyness, fake thing is a joke.

All of the awesome HW's now will just go into TFC:S and own it up some more because they figured out their 'true aim.'

Maybe putting sun spots on your screen when you get hit by a conc that can impair your vision a little bit would add a different dimension. You'd still be thrown out of the way of a conc, just not dizzy. The sun spots would intensify upon the distance you were from the conc, and you could still shoot accurately, it just would be difficult to see on certain parts of your screen until it fades away.

[Ka0s-]

Here's a few quick ideas. Nothin to special, and ill probably get bitched at for some of em...I'm not saying we need all of them, but im just throwin a few ideas out there for you guys to think about...

- Fists, so you could punch people :D.
- Spy disguise script...announce to team what he disguised as...
- Sticky nades?
- Demo ability to set detpacks on walls...i guess it would just look cooler
- Tripmines? like on normal HL
- If you take damage, then other people see youre hurt. Blood stains, cuts, dents in armor etc. ...maybe, maybe not.

[sgx_d]

- If you take damage, then other people see youre hurt. Blood stains, cuts, dents in armor etc. ...maybe, maybe not.

Just so you know that does come with HL2. But only the newer cards support all of the advanced graphics like that. I'm not sure if they would need to be coded into the game or not since it is default HL2.

[unfy]

Jiggles']A bunch of games have tried not keeping track of individual scores. Usually they end up giving in to demand and including this feature.

I was thinking just remove the death counter, leave the kills counter, so people still can think they are worth something according to their scores, but they will whore the respawn less because they don't have to worry about another death making their kill/death ratio worse.

[Pet]

- It has always seemed odd that SGs should be able to be taken down by nailguns. They should be impervious to nailguns. I hate seemingly endless nailguns taking down my precious.
- Always seemed odd too that SGs didn't have FF on by default. How do they know??? Giving them FF would mean a slightly different approach to SG positions; higher spots mean a better downward angle on the enemy and thus less stray FF. Maps could have more strategic high spots that would be useful to engies.
- Engies build up to 2 sgs, but they take longer to build.
- Change emps so instead of igniting packs, make em also zap SGs so they'll be disabled until power returns after X seconds.
- Get rid of med infecting ability.
- Get rid of individual player stats, only report team stats.
- Create team group chat, so you can talk to just your D or O units.
- Fix the demo det bug. :\
- allow teleporter entrances to work properly under water.
- Fix the invisible teleporter bug
- i'm too sleepy to come up with specifics, but it would be interesting to add some map functions to allow a map & score to be recorded & reset at the 15 minute mark and teams switch, so a full league match can occur in 30 minutes.
- I don't like any of these ideas that much, but wanted a chuckle if any were implemented :P (well except for the last one)

[mag]

I'd like to reiterate what I said earlier about the tutorial mode available through the title screen. With some simple conc help, RJ help, and basic things us leaguers/former leaguers have done forever... it might help the newbies get more into it. Maybe a few stages for each thing, with harder steps for each lesson... I don't know, I just hate it when I see new people get irritated and leave servers.

[Palmy]

Misc:
-Grenades will be affected by explosions and gunshots
-RPG Rockets can be shot with hitscans
-

Scout:
-Replace caltrops with smoke bombs, ala CS
-Allow scouts to have a special function that drops beacons that your team will be able to see through walls. This will help with offensive grouping and such.

Sniper:
-Lower RoF
-Higher damage
-No AR
-Limited cloaking (50% transparency, or whatnot) when crouched and still for a set number of seconds
-Replace frag grenades with smoke bombs

Solder:
-Instead of nail grenades, give them actual fragmentary grenades with bouncing shrapnel.

Demoman:
-Much less of an auditory hint of a detonating detpack
-Make detpacks take perhaps twice as long to set
-Make detpacks able to be disarmed by anyone (CS style, but quicker)
-Detpacks can be stuck to walls

Medic:
-Can produce medkits for teammates (or enemies) to pick up at the expense of their own health (these medkits also heal infections)

HW:
-Give the HW much more ammo (perhaps infinite...)
-Make the AC overheat, causing damage and such to the player.
-The HW's RoF accelerates dramatically after a few seconds of firing, but its accuracy decreases heavily.

Pyro:
-Unlit napalm - excellent idea, whoever.
-Not sure what else, but this could be a fun class to modify with the Source engine.

Spy:
-Gas grenades make you hallucinate like shit: spinning vision, trails, vision pulsing, auditory hallucinations, etc.
-The tranquilizer also "drugs" the victim, giving them a double vision of sorts.
-While disguised, the spy should have a special function to allow them to take the name of a person they have in their crosshair (say, if they hold the other player in their crosshairs for a solid 3 seconds, requiring them to sneak up on others)
-A faster walk/crouch than normal

Engineer:
-Replace the rail gun with the gravity gun
-SG's past level 1 are bolted to the floor
-Dispensers give out limited health (making them a higher value target)
-A special function that allows engineers to see using their SG's (SG-cam!).

[Forgotten]

- Get rid of individual player stats, only report team stats.
Interesting idea that I've never seen mentioned before. Better yet, make it a server cvar. That way leagues can have this included in configs to motivate teamplay and remove any temptation to play your own game to get the best score. But it would still keep the fun of pubbing to see what you can do.