for the metal fans

[q]

how do you characterize progressive or death or thrash metal from ordinary metalcore? rather, if i hear a song, how could i tell if it was metal or metalcore?

[vashts80]

Metalcore usually has hardcore "chug-chug-chugga-chug" type breakdowns, and it's usually screaming vocals.

[sani]

to me personally, if i were to hear it and it made me chew on a baby, then it's really good metal.

ok but yeah, i tend not to categorize that much as if i like then it's good with me. although i will say that progressive tends to incorporate wacky time shifts and different musical elements into it (at least to me and i could be well off but i do not care that much) than the normal straight ahead metal.

[q]

some guys on my campus claim that unearth is the greatest metal band around

a list of bands that fit each metal category would be nice also

[sani]

here's azul's take from a past thread

Band - Album(s)

Heavy Metal / NWOBHM
ACCEPT - Balls to the Wall
Axel Rudi Pell - Oceans of Time
Cloven Hoof - A Sultan's Ransom
Dio - Holy Diver; The Last in Line
King Diamond - Abigail; Abigail II; The Puppet Master
Lordi - Get Heavy; The Monsterican Dream
Machine Men - Elegies
Manowar - Every album they ever made.
M.A.R.S. - Project : Driver
Mercyful Fate - Don't Break the Oath; In The Shadows; Melissa
Queensryche - Operation: Mindcrime
Running Wild - Everything. Pirate metal > *

Power Metal
3 Inches of Blood - Advance and Vanquish
Brainstorm - Ambiguity
Dark at Dawn - Of Decay and Desire
DivineFire - Glory Thy Name
Dragonforce - Sonic Firestorm; Valley of the Damned
Firewind - Between Heaven and Hell; Burning Earth
Helloween - Keeper of the Seven Keys, pt 1 and pt 2; Walls of Jericho
Iron Savior - Everything. They haven't made a bad song yet.
Sonata Arctica - Ecliptica; Silence

Neoclassical / Shred
Impellitteri - Answer to the Master; Crunch; Eye of the Hurricane; Impellitteri; Screaming Symphony
Jason Becker - Perpetual Burn
Joe Stump - Everything.
Joey Tafolla - Out of the Sun
Michael Angelo Batio - No Boundaries
Rusty Cooley - Rusty Cooley
Yngwie J. Malmsteen - Alchemy; The Seventh Sign; Unleash the Fury; War to End All Wars

Thrash Metal
Anthrax - Among the Living; Persistence of Time
Dark Angel - Darkness Descends
Exodus - Bonded By Blood; Fabulous Disaster; Pleasures of the Flesh
Iced Earth - Night of the Stormrider
Kreator - Extreme Aggression; Pleasure to Kill
MX - Simoniacal
Razor - Escape the Fire; Executioner's Song; Open Hostility; Shotgun Justice
Sadus - A Vision of Misery; Chemical Exposure/Illusions
Sepultura - Arise; Beneath the Remains; Schizophrenia
Sodom - In the Sign of Evil; Persecution Mania; Agent Orange

Melodic Death
Arch Enemy - Black Earth; Burning Bridges; Stigmata
Arsis - A Celebration of Guilt
At the Gates - Slaughter of the Soul; With Fear I Kiss the Burning Darkness
Callenish Circle - Flesh-Power-Dominion
Children of Bodom - Something Wild; Hatebreeder; Follow the Reaper
Dark Tranquillity - Skydancer; The Gallery; The Mind's I
Eternal Tears of Sorrow - A Virgin and a Whore; Chaotic Beauty
Hypocrisy - Abducted; Virus
Insomnium - In the Halls of Awaiting; Since the Day it All Came Down
Kalmah - Everything.
Nightrage - Sweet Vengeance
Norther - Dreams of Endless War; Mirror of Madness
Sentenced - North From Here
Serpent - Cradle of Insanity
Skyfire - Everything, specifically "Spectral".
Suidakra - Emprise to Avalon; Signs for the Fallen
Unanimated - In the Forest of the Dreaming Dead; Ancient God of Evil

Black Metal (feat. many exclusions)
1349 - 1349; Chaos Preferred; Liberation
Absurd - Blutgericht; Facta Loquuntur; Raubritter
Aura Noir - Black Thrash Attack
Bathory - Bathory; Blood Fire Death; Hammerheart; Nordland I and II; The Return; Under the Sign of the Black Mark
Borknagar - The Olden Domain
Burzum - Burzum/Aske; Det Som Engang Var; Filosofem; Hvis Lyset Tar Oss
Catamenia - Halls of Frozen North
Cryptic Wintermoon - Of Shadows...; The Age of Cataclysm
Dark Funeral - De Profundis Clamavi Ad Te Domine
Darkthrone - Everything.
Dissection - Storm of the Light's Bane; The Somberlain; Where Dead Angels Lie EP
Emperor - Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk; In the Nightside Eclipse
Goatlord - Reflections of the Solstice
Gorgoroth - Antichrist; Destroyer; Incipit Satan; Pentagram; Under the Sign of Hell
Grand Belial's Key - Judeobeast Assassination; Mocking the Philanthropist
Graveland - Everything.
Immortal - At the Heart of Winter; Damned in Black; Diabolical Fullmoon Mysticism; Pure Holocaust; Sons of Northern Darkness
Hades Almighty - ...Again Shall Be
Marduk - Heaven Shall Burn When We Are Gathered
Mayhem - De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas; Deathcrush; Grand Declaration of War; Wolf's Lair Abyss
Moonblood - Blut und Krieg; Taste Our German Steel
Nordafrost - Dominus Frigoris
Old Man's Child - Born of the Flickering; The Pagan Prosperity
Rotting Christ - Everything.
Satanic Warmaster - Strength and Honour
Satyricon - Dark Medieval Times; Nemesis Divina; The Forest is My Throne; The Shadowthrone
Svartsyn - Bloodline; Destruction of Man; ...His Majesty
Taake - ...Doedskvad; Nattestid Ser Porten Vid; Over Bjorgvin Grater Himmerik
The Meads of Asphodel - Everything + Split with Mayhem <---(Their work on this rapes)
Ulver- Bergtatt; Kveldsjanger; Nattens Madrigal
Unlord - Schwarzwald

i forget where azul idles, but he can get into depth on this a lot more than most.

[ALieN]

lol unearth is nowhere near being great

[azul]

how do you characterize progressive or death or thrash metal from ordinary metalcore? rather, if i hear a song, how could i tell if it was metal or metalcore?

Progressive Metal:

Sounds just like the name explains: progressive. Takes some musical influence from older prog rock, like King Crimson, Rush, and Yes. There are bands who incorporate progressive elements into the likes of death metal, as you're all probably aware of (Opeth). It's easier to know it just by knowing what it sounds like.

examples:
Dream Theater
Symphony X (so everyone says...)
Opeth
Cynic

You should probably find someone else to talk about Prog Metal, I really don't care for the majority of the genre, and can't tell you too much.

Death Metal:
Sounds nothing like metalcore... if you're listening to actual death metal, and not some wacky fusion band. Here we're looking at a lot of super technical ability in the musicianship. This is common in metalcore, to my understanding, so you're going to want to look at the actual music to differentiate.
Vocals: Deep, gutteral growls. Sometimes you get "Mr. Croc", as ReCoN puts it. Afaic, metalcore usually brings with it a bunch of [Ed. Note: annoying and ear-piercing] sceamy, border-line screechy vocals. Most attempts at a "death" growl by metalcore vocalists end up sounding like the guy from Lamb of God or an orc from LotR.
Guitar: As already stated, metalcore is going to have a lot of chuggachuggachugga and WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE chugchug WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE in it. That's not music, sorry fanboys. Anything that doesn't cause dogs to whimper will probably by death metal. And hooray for random melodic solos... or just flying out fingers down the fretboards trying to hoping that it sounds good. This is found a lot in death metal.

examples:
Deicide
Death
Suffocation
Vital Remains
Cryptopsy
Necrophagist

Thrash metal:
Not even going to bother explaining, because there's really nothing to explain. It's just that different. As is progressive metal, but I'm tired of typing stuff by now :(

examples:
Metalli...nvm
Megadeth (first three albums ftw)
Sodom
Sepultura
Kreator
Exodus
Slayer (eeew!)

---
Not really the best explanation of the differences, but hey, it's 11:07 am and i just woke up. Listening to new Kalmah albums; get it fagorts :D

[cryptopsy]

So I'm in the Thrash/Death Metal catagory. Sweet.

[RavenndudE]

I can normally always tell Thrash from the drumming. If you have snare, bass drum and <insert random cymbal here> being hit all at the same time in like sixteenth notes, or fast eigth notes, changes are it is some sort of thrash.
For for the drummers that have amazing chops, snare and random cymbal in sixteenth notes with bass drum in thirty-sedond notes, that's also "t(h)rashy" (lol, i'm not a big fan of thrash)

[azul]

You can tell thrash apart just by listening to it. Besides black metal, it's probably the most distinct sub-genre.

[Thrash]

So I'm in the Thrash/Death Metal catagory. Sweet.
You are definitely not in me.

Thrash metal:
Not even going to bother explaining, because there's really nothing to explain. It's just that different.
Yeah, I'm definitely the best.

I can normally always tell Thrash from the drumming. I'm quite the amazing drummer.

that's also "t(h)rashy" (lol, i'm not a big fan of thrash)You can fucking rot in hell you dirty cunt.

[RavenndudE]

lol, silly thrash!!

[Yesbama]

yeah its about ryhtym, melody and the flowiness rather than technical playat3xspeedslayer thrash metal for me

[GARGANTUAN]

metalcore to me usually fell along more of the as I lay dying, black dahlia murder, so on...usually all the songs have one beat throughout the entire song. Most of the metalcore bands imo play the same notes over and over again in a different order with breakdowns thrown in here and there.

The chuggs and wheeeeee's usually fell under hardcore for me, or more of just a metal which could be a mixture of like remembering never, dead to fall and bury your dead, despised icon, the red chord, ion dissonance.

When azul talks about mindless shreading down the frets in hopes to find something that sounds decent (if the drummer uses transitions throughout and goes into amazingly different time signatures like they do for example 12 times throughout 43% burnt in the dillinger escape plan) then to me it would be considered mathcore. The mindless shreading comes from different types of dissonant sounding arpeggios or scales on guitar that they play really fast up and down the frets, sometimes with fast pull offs/hammering/tapping, and then usually go into something super simple as playing the same chord over and over again really fast with blast beats (which most people consider just noise and are disgusted by the sound the band creates). Although azul considers it to be one of the most untalented types of music I consider it to be one of the most talented. The guitarists have to memorize each note they play so they can replay the song (which is hard because I try), and they also have to have quick hands, while the drummer actually has to use math in his head to make up the beats and what timings he is going to use throughout the songs. The dillinger escape plans drummer went to berkley for drumming and is an amazing imo. Other such bands I consider amazing that I also put in the mathcore genre are psyopus and into the moat.

Other than that you're pretty much off to put bands in multiple genres, because most of the music that is being made today combines many genres into one. Throughout any of the genres mentioned above, a double bass pedal is a mans best friend.

[azul]

Incorrect. In fact, I actually said metalcore, or even mathcore, was requiring of talent

looking at a lot of super technical ability in the musicianship. This is common in metalcore, to my understanding, so you're going to want to look at the actual music to differentiate.

I just hate the sound of it. It's awful.

[goldplatypus]

Slayer (eeew!)
Die by the sword.

[azul]

The sons of Odin smile upon you not. Death to false metal.

ps. get the fuck on aim and send me that new Manowar stuff :(

[GARGANTUAN]

And hooray for random melodic solos... or just flying out fingers down the fretboards trying to hoping that it sounds good. This is found a lot in death metal.

To me, I didn't know if you meant actual solos or shreading throughout the songs. That's when naming genres fucking blows because you mention death metal at the end and I didn't know if you meant more along a line of mathcore (without making it seem that you're making up a bullshit genre which it really isn't, but to most people it is) with some breakdowns or if you meant actual death metal with solos which I don't hear a lot of. To me metalcore doesn't take as much talent as it would to write in a mathcore band, although it does require some talent and speed.

The way it was put could have been taken in several different ways. I'm assuming I took it a way it wasn't meant to be put.

[azul]

Well perhaps I should have phrased it as "just flying fingers down the frets" because there's most definetly some very intricate writing in there. I guess I was just trying to explain the actual sound of it. As complex and well thought out as it may be, it still sounds like mish-mosh. And I can give you lots of death metal songs with legitimate solos, it's not uncommon at all.

edit: In rereading what I wrote in that post, where you took that quote from, I see I was talking about those kinda moron-spazzy solos in death metal. Yeah, there's a truck load of solos in death metal where it just sounds like the guitarist is biting the strings. But imo the same goes for most -core bands. But shame to both genres for that kinda stuff.

[GARGANTUAN]

yah I guess I'm not so into death metal to the point where I listen to it on a regular basis and maybe that's why I don't hear many solos but sometimes bands like to throw in those super ugly (or dissonant) notes in there because some people like hearing them. I guess it's all a matter of preference on if you like it or not, but most bands that write in a more grind genre use that a lot. A good example being daughters :D! I love that shit but half the people who listen to it can't stand it.