Hezbollah: "We're ready for open war"

[Ignatz]

BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said on Friday that his group is ready for "open war" with Israel, as each side launched attacks in the deepening crisis.
Hell no you aren't. Israel will kick your ass and everyone in the world knows it. Your bullshit rhetoric about how hard you're going to fight is utterly hollow. If you had any hope at all of defeating Israel, you wouldn't be sneaking around launching 40-year-old missiles in the general direction of the Mediterranean and sending pussy cowards to blow themselves up in crowds of women and children. Israel owned your ass in every real war you ever fought with them and pretty soon they're going to own you outright. You had to step in when you thought they were weak and kidnap their people, and you're about to suffer the wrath, but good, you filthy piece of shit.

[polarity]

Maybe the Sayaret Maktal should recruit you. Wow.

[Cann]

I've been sort of 'out of the loop' in terms of keeping up w/ the news the last few months but I thought I remember reading something about the Hezbollah leader's HQ had been destroyed in addition to bombing the shit out of their airfield / naval base. All of the recent hostilities by both sides, seemed to be the reaction of two Israeli soldiers being taken hostage. (sry I'm sure most already know this, but wanted to restate in this thread for those who don't know & to dbl check what [facts] I think I know.)


My favorite part of the story is that 'Dubbya' has no problem w/ the bombings .. even though well over 60 palestinians have already been killed. The pres. simply "urged the Israeli Prime Minister to avoid civilian casualties."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5180862.stm

[koruptid]

Maybe the Sayaret Maktal should recruit you. Wow.
Haha.

He has a point, though. Isreal could beat the piss out of every country in a thousand-mile radius. A bunch of terrorist douchebags with jerry-rigged Soviet weaponry don't stand a snowball's chance in Saudi Arabia.

[schtoofa]

Most of the news articles I've read / heard all talk about how this response is because of the kidnappings. While that may have been what happened right before the all-out attacks started, they seldom mention the hundreds of rockets that have been fired into Israel over the last several months.

Speculate a moment about the response the USA would have if hundreds of rockets were launched from Mexico into California. Or what would happen if Iran had been launching rockets into Turkey. It wouldn't take months before we'd see a military response. So to that effect, I give Israel some credit.

I dunno what I think about all this stuff. Israel will kick a whole lot of ass before all's said and done, no doubt about that. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to claim some more land. Also wouldn't be surprised if they go after Syria soon.

I'm glad I don't live in the middle east -- what a crazy place that seems to be...

[Cann]

you make a good point, the US would do the exact same thing (bomb the shit out of whoever fired on us) - but I even though I hate to say it ... that may not always be the right decision, sometimes responses are given w/o hesitation or thought of eventual consequences.

I'm speaking generally here though, not necessarily just this situation but more of the conflict (as a whole) b/w the Israeli and Palestinians. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Israel took more land either, but correct me if I'm mistaken - but isn't that what started the entire fuss thousands of years ago?


Not to derail the thread or anything, but ironically I just watched a movie that touches on the subject yesterday, Munich... though it is extremely long and involved, I thought it was a pretty good flick and gave me a better idea of wtf has been going on b/w these two peoples for so long.

[kix[TCK]]

What are the chances that Syria or Iran officially join in the fighting? Anyone have a good guess?

[-Serialchilla-]

if iran gets into a war right now, that would just give them an excuse to use the nukes. I hope they realize their country will be turned into glass if that happens, because everyone else with nukes will shit warheads down on them. Fuck it, we should hit north korea too, those crazy bastards.

[dys]

Syria is connected to Iran, Iran is connected to N. Korea. Russia is connected to all of them economically. And the U.N. is useless.

I don't blame Israel either but maybe that's because I'm a "Bush apologist" and I get sick of these shit countries getting away with all that they do year after year. And then they get rewarded with incentives for being assholes.

It's been a long time coming. If the Muslim nations decide to ban together like they should have done decades ago, they'd give Israel a strong fight. But then every other country except for China, N. Korea and probably France would be involved and at that point there would be no more muslim nations. And as long as it stays over there, i'm fine with that.

[puFf]

Speculate a moment about the response the USA would have if hundreds of rockets were launched from Mexico into California. Or what would happen if Iran had been launching rockets into Turkey. It wouldn't take months before we'd see a military response. So to that effect, I give Israel some credit.



Speculate about your response if a bunch of Mexican troops with bulldozers came up to your house, told you to get out right now, then procede bulldozer your house down. Then build some new houses on your property where they move in fellow Mexican countrymen. Might think about picking up and throwing a rock?

Can kind of see both sides with what you said too. Wish there was a peaceful solution. If other countries get involved we're going to see a domino effect.

[stas]

Speculate about your response if a bunch of Mexican troops with bulldozers came up to your house, told you to get out right now, then procede bulldozer your house down. Then build some new houses on your property where they move in fellow Mexican countrymen. Might think about picking up and throwing a rock?

Can kind of see both sides with what you said too. Wish there was a peaceful solution. If other countries get involved we're going to see a domino effect.

so israels been doing that to lebanon how long?

[puFf]

woops sorry wrong country ...

[adamantium]

']What are the chances that Syria or Iran officially join in the fighting? Anyone have a good guess?

Just saw this on the news, something to the effect of "Syria said it will come to the defense of Lebanon and Hezbollah."

[FluxCapacitor]

you make a good point, the US would do the exact same thing (bomb the shit out of whoever fired on us) - but I even though I hate to say it ... that may not always be the right decision, sometimes responses are given w/o hesitation or thought of eventual consequences.

I'm speaking generally here though, not necessarily just this situation but more of the conflict (as a whole) b/w the Israeli and Palestinians. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Israel took more land either, but correct me if I'm mistaken - but isn't that what started the entire fuss thousands of years ago?


Not to derail the thread or anything, but ironically I just watched a movie that touches on the subject yesterday, Munich... though it is extremely long and involved, I thought it was a pretty good flick and gave me a better idea of wtf has been going on b/w these two peoples for so long.

Munich is incredibly inaccurate. I wouldnt try using "facts" from that movie in intelligent conversation.

[stas]

woops sorry wrong country ...

all good my friend. wheres grinch? im sure hed have a interesting take on all this.

[ohman]

all good my friend. wheres grinch? im sure hed have a interesting take on all this.
Interesting? Heres his take: "Stupid oppresive Zionists finally had enough of displacing the Palestinians, now they have to pick on Lebanon?" It gets old quite quickly. :(

[Moniker]

Grinch is a lot less irrational than you give him credit for :P

I'm glad Israel is doing this. For one, it benefits the United States in two ways: it takes the pressure off of us in Iraq from the Arab world, and it has the potential to take out a notorious terrorist group. People say that Israel overreacted to soldiers being kidnapped, but basically this was just a reason for them to do something they've wanted to do all along.

If Syria and Iran ally against Israel and start contributing in open conflict, this has the potential to turn into a really nasty war that could possibly include the US since we're there already, and have a huge interest in the goings-on of Iran and Israel.

Anyway, I'm cheering for Israel. Go Zionists!

[Hellsy]

This could be really entertaining.

[munks]

This could be really entertaining.

It's going to be even better when we all get drafted for WW3

[ethEreal]

selective service here we come

[schtoofa]

This could be really entertaining.

sad, more like.

Re: Syria / Iran - they may already be involved. I forget what talk radio station (NPR? cbs? can't remember) I was listening to on the way home from work yesterday, but one of the guests speculated that Iran/Syria have been financing these rocket attacks and supplying them with the munitions.

I think that's in part why Israel is blocking off Lebanon's water access, the air access, etc. -- so that the limited number of munitions will "run dry" with little/no hope of getting more.

I hate seeing stuff like this, because I can't picture what will eventually calm the fighting besides people ultimately deciding "there's been enough bloodshed - let's figure this out/give up"

[Ignatz]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not 100% on Israel's side, they have done lots of indefensible things. But the empty-headed, oblivious, macho rhetoric that Middle Eastern Mulsims engage in just makes me sick. If Hezbollah is so ready for open war with a genuine modern military power in 2006, why don't they even run their own country? Why do they hide just across the border and send rockets and suicide bombers? If they're so ready for open war, where's their army? Where's their invasion force? They're afraid to even show themselves because Israel would crush them like an ant and wipe them all out in about 24 hours.

[Kartikeya-OD]

The ending to all this should be obvious to a few of us. :)

My fav quote from LoTR

"The board is set, the pieces are moving".

[Cann]

Munich is incredibly inaccurate. I wouldnt try using "facts" from that movie in intelligent conversation.

Okay, first of all the details of the story depicted in the film / novel it was based upon are debatable, I'll give you that. Second, no where did I reference any supposed 'fact' or 'fiction' from the movie itself in the context of this thread, I simply said it gave me a better understanding of why the two populations have been at war w/ eachother for so long. No, not because of the incident in 1972 (obviously, it goes much further back than that); no matter what you find believable - the main idea I took from Munich is that they have been fighting over the land the Israelies currently occupy, to put it in simplest terms.

I admire how you're able to ignore everything else I had wrote in two posts and pick apart one little line about a movie I thought was pretty decent. Now, would you care to comment on the actual subject of the thread or 'split some more hairs' and pick apart something else I've said here.

[DR. DOOM]

I wonder how quick all you gung ho "yay for war" kids would be singing a different tune if selective service ever returned. Also if you are so pro war join the army they have lots of fighting for you to do.

This is not a good thing for anybody and it is going to get uglier and uglier before it gets better. Don't believe me? You can start by watching your local gas station's price sign go thru the roof.

If Syria and or Iran get involved, we are in the middle with a large portion of our military in Iraq. This is far fetched but it seems like Israel is hoping things escalate. Since we are already there with a large military force. If Syria and Iran get involved it's not to far of a stretch to think that the US will be pulled into the conflict also. Everyone should hope and pray this shit settles down cause it could very easily get out of control really fast.

[Express]

This is not a good thing for anybody and it is going to get uglier and uglier before it gets better. Don't believe me? You can start by watching your local gas station's price sign go thru the roof.

Yep, There are rumours of Iranian involvement in Lebanon already. If true it could lead to Israeli airstrikes on Iran, This is what chiefly concerns Me.
And I also see my 73 Triumph sitting in my garage in small bits as I shell out to pay for fuel for my jeep.

If Syria and or Iran get involved, we are in the middle with a large portion of our military in Iraq. I see dark things coming for sure.

Maybe We are in the right place at the right time to forestall any major Iranian moves in this conflict just from our presence alone.

[agi|e]

"yawn"

How many decades have these 2 countries been fighting? More of the same old crap.

[larcain]

"yawn"

How many decades have these 2 countries been fighting? More of the same old crap.


2 countries?

[Zogo]

"yawn"

How many decades have these 2 countries been fighting? More of the same old crap.

these lunatics have been fighting since recorded history..the only solution is to sequester them from each other. move one to easter island and move one to a mars space colony or something.

[Hellsy]

It's going to be even better when we all get drafted for WW3

I'm a little too old for that now.

And I doubt it will become WW3.

[Moniker]

Man, this is really starting to get entertaining. I wonder if Iran and Syria are going to jump in. I don't see Iran having much more than a token impact seeing how it's impossible for them to transport any war materiel of any consequence through their border nations (Iraq/Turkey). If Syria attacks Israel, they'll get crushed because Israel has a massive advantage.

And I seriously doubt that they want the US to intervene because that will mean instant death. That's like fighting a wolf in the forest and waking up his friend, the 3-story-tall immortal firebreathing dragon.

Such interesting times we live in. I wonder if this was what the 60s felt like (except they had better music).

[puFf]

If Syria and or Iran get involved, we are in the middle with a large portion of our military in Iraq. This is far fetched but it seems like Israel is hoping things escalate. Since we are already there with a large military force. If Syria and Iran get involved it's not to far of a stretch to think that the US will be pulled into the conflict also. Everyone should hope and pray this shit settles down cause it could very easily get out of control really fast.

Don't forget Afganistan being on the eastern border of Iran too . What I find really scary is if China and Russia decide to pick a side and get involved. They were practicing joint military operations together not long ago (read it in the paper a year + ago ... sorry no links). Russia has also been a long time supporter/ally with Iran. Then figure in NK. And also figure we haven't had the nicest foreign relations with any of those countries.

For those that say nukes well...the whole planet will be screwed if those start flying.

[Sponge]

It's been a long time coming. If the Muslim nations decide to ban together like they should have done decades ago, they'd give Israel a strong fight.

i disagree (incoming long read - some might find it interesting) (http://www.meforum.org/article/441). they did 'band together' and they failed to beat the israelis in 1948 when israel had a tiny fraction of the support from the US they now enjoy. going on what the article says, i don't think they'd be able to band together and form the tight coalition they'd need to beat israel. but that's a hunch from someone who's not well read on the subject.

[Exe]

The entire middle east is a god damned powder keg and the fuse has been lit...

[kiken]

they didnt fail to beat isreal. Isreal just kicked the living shit out of them quickly thus how isreal gt the gaza strip and other land. they finaly gave back most of the land they took and forcefuly moved their people back to the border. so dont say isreal has been wanting to fight. they have given up land and done alot of other things to try and end the conflict.
also here is a good link with the history between israel and palestine. http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

[munks]

I'm a little too old for that now.

And I doubt it will become WW3.

are you past 39

This is going to implode and suck the whole region (and hey Russia and China have assets here too, hmm) into war. Israel needs to get the fuck out now while they still can and start talking with Lebanon and the UN to disarm Hezbollah and remove them from the Lebanese parliment. Shooting shells and killing civillians on both sides is just stupid and every person you kill creates 3 more people who want to kill you. The violence prolongs the violence once again.

[MV8]

they didnt fail to beat isreal. Isreal just kicked the living shit out of them quickly thus how isreal gt the gaza strip and other land. they finaly gave back most of the land they took and forcefuly moved their people back to the border. so dont say isreal has been wanting to fight. they have given up land and done alot of other things to try and end the conflict.
also here is a good link with the history between israel and palestine. http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html


good read...
Thanks for the link.

[mulisha]

are you past 39

This is going to implode and suck the whole region (and hey Russia and China have assets here too, hmm) into war. Israel needs to get the fuck out now while they still can and start talking with Lebanon and the UN to disarm Hezbollah and remove them from the Lebanese parliment. Shooting shells and killing civillians on both sides is just stupid and every person you kill creates 3 more people who want to kill you. The violence prolongs the violence once again.

You do know they were already supposed to disarm Hezbollah but don't have the means to do so right? If Hezbollah is to be disarmed, Israel would have to do it itself.

[schtoofa]

You do know they were already supposed to disarm Hezbollah but don't have the means to do so right? If Hezbollah is to be disarmed, Israel would have to do it itself.

Indeed. The UN and U.S. had already requested that the Lebanese government take control of south Lebanon. Now the Lebanese government is kindly offering to regain control of the south, in exchange for a ceasefire order from the UN security council. I don't know if the Leb. government is even capable of taking control of it. :/

[mulisha]

Indeed. The UN and U.S. had already requested that the Lebanese government take control of south Lebanon. Now the Lebanese government is kindly offering to regain control of the south, in exchange for a ceasefire order from the UN security council. I don't know if the Leb. government is even capable of taking control of it. :/

Well it would be a civil war.

[Bwater]

My favorite part of the story is that 'Dubbya' has no problem w/ the bombings .. even though well over 60 palestinians have already been killed.

Obviously I'm not on the front lines, so I'm unsure of how the civillian deaths have happened so far and I am just speculating, however in the past a key defensive strategy for Hamas and Hezbollah is to use human shields. Ever notice in media coverage how they sorround themselves with unarmed civilians? They are playing on the fact that Israel is unwilling to fire at them and risk killing civilians.

There (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060706/photos_ts/2006_07_06t083426_450x280_us_mideast) are (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060706/481/5e894b019eb24e7e83774d9bdd4fec22) abundant (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060706/481/033303a788704e4da6186c4a9647cd93) examples (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060706/photos_wl_me_afp/e2d72e3b499f6712f422e9ddef875960) of (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060707/481/f6e7af3d39d545a8a37567308051c2c5) this on nearly a daily basis.

don't stand a snowball's chance in Saudi Arabia.

rofl!

If the Muslim nations decide to ban together like they should have done decades ago, they'd give Israel a strong fight.

A major reason that this hasn't happened is because there is finally a line being drawn between moderate and extremist muslim nations, and those on the moderate side of that line don't want to fuck with America and Israel. I think this is an intended component of our Middle East strategy.

I hate seeing stuff like this, because I can't picture what will eventually calm the fighting besides people ultimately deciding "there's been enough bloodshed - let's figure this out/give up"

I think it comes down to the terrorists/extremists/insurgents, label 'em whatever you want, abandoning their flawed ideology willingly. For that to happen a competing and superior ideology has to be available instead of surpressed. Basically, a western flavored hegemony that doesn't get it's subscribers beheaded.

This is not a good thing for anybody and it is going to get uglier and uglier before it gets better. Don't believe me? You can start by watching your local gas station's price sign go thru the roof.

It is undeniably ugly, but is there an alternative to military action that doesn't end up just as ugly? They have beat the diplomacy dead horse ad naseum and the situation has escalated the entire time.

If Syria and or Iran get involved, we are in the middle with a large portion of our military in Iraq. This is far fetched but it seems like Israel is hoping things escalate. Since we are already there with a large military force. If Syria and Iran get involved it's not to far of a stretch to think that the US will be pulled into the conflict also. Everyone should hope and pray this shit settles down cause it could very easily get out of control really fast.

I don't think it's far fetched at all, in fact I think it's by design. If you want to see out of control fast, just sit back and do nothing and let things run their course without American intervention.

[Moniker]

I like how the Lebanese PM was bitching at America to fix the problem. So are we the world's police or not, because it seems whenever we keep our hands off of it, the world goes to shit and it's our fault for letting it happen. Whenever we step in to kick ass, everyone (including some of our own citizens) hates us for intervening.

We just can't win. I say we just cut off all aid that doesn't benfit our own interests and let Europe deal with this bullshit.

[ohman]

I wonder how quick all you gung ho "yay for war" kids would be singing a different tune if selective service ever returned. Also if you are so pro war join the army they have lots of fighting for you to do.
I'm not pro-war, so much as I am for seeing a country finally say "enough is enough" and refuse to be shat on by its neighbors or the UN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379) any more.

If Syria and or Iran get involved, we are in the middle with a large portion of our military in Iraq. This is far fetched but it seems like Israel is hoping things escalate. Since we are already there with a large military force. If Syria and Iran get involved it's not to far of a stretch to think that the US will be pulled into the conflict also. Everyone should hope and pray this shit settles down cause it could very easily get out of control really fast.
IF? Iran provided the start-up resources to Hezbollah, and both Iran and Syria still provide backing for Hezbollah (http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20031101faessay82606/daniel-byman/should-hezbollah-be-next.html) (In case you missed the important part, Hezbollah was the one violating Israel's sovereignty). It doesn't seem far fetched at all, especially since Israel had the capacity to defend itself against several Arab countries in 1948 when the country (or the IDF for that matter) was yet to fully form. The support provided to them by the US has only made them stronger and more capable of repelling the combined armies of Lebanon, Syria, and Iran. It might not take 6 days, but it will be done quickly.

If Russia and China start taking sides, then yes, of course things will get interesting. Russia has been mixed on assigning blame, and China has been relatively mute (source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reaction_to_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis)).

Something that everyone seems to forget is that one two seperate occasions within the last month, the national borders of Israel have been violated, and soldiers kidnapped. That can not be allowed to happen to any country, and you can not allow the fact it is Israel to color your judgement. Say all you want that they were terrorist organizations, and that the civilians should not be harmed. But, Hamas controls 74 of the 132 seats in the Palestintian Legislative Council. Hezbollah controls 23 of the 128 seats in the Lebanese Parliament, and is part of the "Free Patriotic Movement" which is perched to take control of the Lebanese government when Lahoud's term ends in 2007. Now the Lebanese government is caught with its pants around its ankles, and is trying to distance itself from Hezbolla; which, oops, is part of the Lebanese government.

If this were to occur anywhere else in the world, everyone would look at the victimized country, and say "damn right, go get them." Israel has always allowed themselves to be reigned in by the United States, and it seems like Bush is more than happy to let them continue on this path. This is the first thing Bush has done in a long time that I agree with.

EDIT: I see you down there E_I ;)

[munks]

You do know they were already supposed to disarm Hezbollah but don't have the means to do so right? If Hezbollah is to be disarmed, Israel would have to do it itself.

Yes, and now it's time to stop fucking around and actually do it. Don't let Hezbollah members run for office in Lebanon, find out who is giving Hezbollah their funds (which is Iran and Syria from what I understand) and freeze their accounts. Taking pot shots at civillian filled cities whether you're a "terrorist" or our "ally" doesn't do anything useful. Israel needs to either get on the ground in Lebanon and finish this shit or be the bigger man and get out so the Hezbollah stops firing random rockets into Israel.

[mulisha]

Yes, and now it's time to stop fucking around and actually do it. Don't let Hezbollah members run for office in Lebanon, find out who is giving Hezbollah their funds (which is Iran and Syria from what I understand) and freeze their accounts. Taking pot shots at civillian filled cities whether you're a "terrorist" or our "ally" doesn't do anything useful. Israel needs to either get on the ground in Lebanon and finish this shit or be the bigger man and get out so the Hezbollah stops firing random rockets into Israel.

They're weakening their infrastructure so when they do go in, it will be a lost easier. Believe this, Israel will disarm and get rid of Hezbollah before they're through. Airstrikes are always a precursor to ground forces moving in modern warfare.

[xladead]

.. thought id add some info to this discussion
I live in Israel (born and raised and yes i play tfc in euro)
plz excuse my spelling and grammar errors.. and i might ramble abit...
this will be a long post ,so i apologize in advance.

I dont mean to "sound" condescending,so plz excuse me...(again)
its just that the israeli news channels bring in generals and former-generals in the israeli army-intelligence,northen region... members and former-members of the goverment that were part of the defense ministery or in the many different defensive counsils....
so my info is abit more extensive than fox/cnn

lets start with y Israel actualy went to this offensive ...
Hezbollah (or hizballah/hizbolla,doesnt matter) has crossed the red line the second they kidnapped 2 israeli soldiers and killed 7 of our soldiers..3 who were in the hummers with the 2 kidnapped sols, and another 4 died when they went in after the kidnappers with a tank that got bombed by a massive(few tons of explosive to destory the israeli merkava tank) detpack.

A few monthes ago Hezbollah had another abduction attempt which failed miserably..(one israeli soldier killed about 6 terrorists on his own )
and all Israel did was to bomb a few Hezbollah camps that were rebuilt within days... (big mistake by Israel imo, should have not let them just continue on)

U have to understand the unbelieveable situation here... hHezbollah was basicly standing 5 meters away from the israeli northern border...waving hello to israeli troops patrols...(upto a few days ago) because the shit scared lebonese goverment didnt put theyr troops there...(even though the "mighty" U.N. orderd them to.)

its basicly like living next to a murderer who has threatend to kill you,yet u dont do anything about it, except get a few watch dogs to patrol ur yard..(border), (Hezbollah simply studied the routine and EASILY got our guys)
as mighty as the israeli army is...and sposedly so smart,,.. there are so many stupid fuckups.. as the area where the soldiers patroled , had no cover, was warned about for years and years by whatever soldiers who served in that sector.

FACT !
=====
- Hezbollah has been armed and funded by Iran via Suria,where there are still Hezbollah and hamas hq's (which i suspect will be taken out in the next few days/weeks).
Iran will not go to war with israel... theyve got bigger issues (U>S>A :)
and u can forget about chinese/russian/n.korea connection...they;ll just say some shit on the news..nothing serious,though they all have buisness with Iran and the syrian-russian connection is rather strong (last year? there was a big issue with some anti-air missles the syrians tried to buy from Russia).

as for Syria going to war.. thats like a sad joke.
yes ,theyve issued a statement that they will not hestitate (to attack?) if Israel attacks Syria, but lets be honest...Syria doesnt have half the infastructure that hizbolla has been building up in Lebanon for years and years (underground bunkers,outragous number of missles -Iranian and Syrian made,some are new btw,not so old..) and Israel can take out the Syrian army within a matter of minutes..(like 20-30? ,and i aint joking)

so far the arab nations are sorta staying out of this, and actualy saying Hezbollah has fuckedup!!!! which is a big fkn step, though its only because the prime minister of Lebanon is a saudi proteje. lots and lots of funds have been invested in building a new pro west(u.s.a) Lebanon, which has now simply been totaly fucked over because of Hezbollah.. lots of arabs/muslims actualy want Nassralla's (chief of hizbolla) head on a plate.

Hezbollah town in beirut and hq's have been utterly DESTROYED according to the news here, however we know underneith all the rubble, there are many many underground bunkers...so killing nassralla aint really an option.

even with the mighty israeli defense force, still almost a 1000 missles have been shot into Israel from lebanon... this is because its very hard to fight an orginized guerilla (TERRORIST) army..they move theyr missles by cars and just shoot,and runaway .
ofcourse the IDF is moving its missles by

[xladead]

planes and bombing the shitfuck outta lebanon and Hezbollah infastructures... (and as i type this post,idf's air force just took out 5 trucks full of missiles :)

It was actualy a mistake to bomb the airport imo, as now it is very difficult to get all the foriegners out,but Israel couldnt risk the kidnapped soldiers being flied over to Iran. and also couldnt risk Iran sending in more missiles for hizbolla.

Bush
------
- aint too glad Israel is attacking Lebanon, because it has been sorta an american project to rebuild ,and trying to create a democracy there...
i think bush would much rather have Israel pointing its cannons towards Syria, however atm Israel will not rest until the Lebense goverment takes action...
-gets the israeli troops released,put its soldiers in the border with Israel and ofcourse get rid of hizbolla. which is a very hard thing.. ,because Hezbollah ,through Iranian funds, has built schools ,a whole social system,and has many ppl depended on them (about 40% of the population in Lebanon if im not mistaken).. so getting rid of this terrorist orginization is kinda impossiable, however its infastructure,weapons and heads should all be detroyed.


abit of history and israeli-palestinian conflict
=================================
this is not some 1000 year old conflict...(check out the link from kiken http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html )
basicly,... as long as jews were not in control of israel/partly palestine, arabs/muslims had no problems with jews. (not that we were LOVED, but also not hated to death)
back in the day,in muslim Spain-jews and muslims lived peacefully, it was actualy the "lovely" christians who came and inforced theyr religion on everyone.. (i wonder howcome the muslim world doesnt do shit about spain..)
basicly..the muslim world cannot stand it,that a once muslim land (oathman empire controled Israel aka palestine back then) is actualy under INFADELS! (anyone who doesnt pray to allah is an infadel) control .
they also have a really hard time dealing with the fact the a tiny country with about 6.5 milion jews (about 4.5-4 milion in those days,prolly less) simply OWNED them ..jordan+syria+egypt+iraq+libya+lebanon all had theyr armies owned by what was back then a tiny tiny IDF (thanks for some help u.s.a :)
idf back then (1948) was using ww2 planes and tanks and whatever leftovers in europe from ww2.. while the arab nations had the latest russian technology and arms(weapons) in theyr hands..

YOU JUST GOT KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT! , BIATCH!!!!!!! (*proud )


my personal opinion... im 21years old,volenteerd to the IDF (army is manditory in Israel) as a techie cauz of medical discharge.
I aint religious, nor do i believe in some almighty god,but i do believe in the jewish traditions..

"palestinians" do not deserve a country/state..
they are not really a "people" or nationality, there is no difference between them and arabs in jordan/syria/egypt/lebanon/whatever fkn arab country.
( Iranians are of a Farsi ppl, different from arabs, infact Israel was once extermly close with iran,as was the u,s.a.. unfortunately the muslim fanatics took over and fucked it all up. this is partly to blame on CIA fuckups, just like the CIA training al-quieda to build bombs when they needed them in the past... )

y do jews deserve a country?
we have our own history/culture/language/religion/land we ruled 3000years ago,and are the only ppl who managed to stay alive in this land and make it into a successful state/country.
all the mighty empires that controled this region are all long gone...

do the palestinians have any of the above? that differs them from the ppl in the many arab countries surrounding Israel, NO!!!

basicly,if Israel wouldnt have changed its name from Palestine to Israel, wtf would they ("palestinian" arabs) call themselvs? ...think about it.


However... lets be realistic..
============================
a 2 state solution is defintly possiable, if the fuckedup terrorists simply stop with this endless fighting...(I fully admit Israel aint no fkn saint,and has done/doing terrible acts over the past 50years)

again,just "stop fighting" is great on paper and on t,v, however in real life its rather impossiable ....(true many wars have ended already, hell, Israel has peace with Egypt! a country which once (few times actualy) tried to totaly destroy us).

yeh yeh, they ("freedom fighters") are fighting against "occupation",against the zionists,they;ll always make some sorta fucking excuse to fight/bomb and kill jews/israelis.
the simply fact is, that even (this is totaly impossiable,hypthetic) if the entire Israel were to crumble into a tiny lil city like raanana (where i live), theyd find some bs reason to fight us...
and thats the problem, there is no reasoning with ppl that GLadly send theyr children out to blow themselvs, terrorists using kids as humen shields!
are these "freedom fighters" really fighting FOR the palestinian ppl?
I dont think so.....

example..
---------
During the begining of the disengagement plan,the IDf did basicly nothing,except protecting (no attacks what so over in palestinian area control),.. yet still the terrorists were shooting kasam missiles and trying to excecute suicide bombings in claim of "release all the terrorists u have captive in ur prisons! "
so basicly, there is no end...they;ll always have another complaint,another reason to fight,fight and fight. (though they mostly diediediedie...)

im mixing things up abit and rambling, sorry.

so how will this basicly end?.. it will end when the hatred is stoped.. it will end when hamas stops teaching lil kids that there were no jews in Israel prior to 1948.. and how to build bombs and shoot ak47s...
it will end when this unbelieveable hate and anger from both sides just gets tierd... ;\

ill try being sorta obejctive here, y are they teaching kids how to use ak47's
maybe because the IDF destroyed theyr house...
y did the idf destory theyr house... because it was a stupid policy by the army/goverment to destroy the homes of terrorists...and yes i know many homes were destroyed with no justification (as i said israel aint no saint).
there is no justification for dead children in the streets (wether they are israeli or arab), and i wish i could apologize somehow, ..but this is a WAR..in war there are civilian casualities- ESPCIALY when the terrorists use civilians (and children ffs) as bodyguards (or bodybags..)

ive got no idea how the "war" with Lebanon/Hezbollah will end
ive got no clue on how the "conflict" will or even if it can, end with the "palestinians" ...
there are many ways to solve these problems.. but its complex ofcourse...
bottom line.. this blind hate of the muslim world has to stop,and only solution i see is some major event.. (i.e. 2nukes on Japan and they surrenderd..)
u wont find a german today that believes germany can take over the world...
unfortunately ull find a milion muslims that are absoultly positive they can take over the world and destroy the u.s.a and control europe.

peace? not in the near future :\
Allon

[Unfor]

"palestinians" do not deserve a country/state..
they are not really a "people" or nationality, there is no difference between them and arabs in jordan/syria/egypt/lebanon/whatever fkn arab country.

lol

[VeeKaChu]

"palestinians" do not deserve a country/state..
they are not really a "people" or nationality, there is no difference between them and arabs in jordan/syria/egypt/lebanon/whatever fkn arab country.
( Iranians are of a Farsi ppl, different from arabs, infact Israel was once extermly close with iran,as was the u,s.a.. unfortunately the muslim fanatics took over and fucked it all up. this is partly to blame on CIA fuckups, just like the CIA training al-quieda to build bombs when they needed them in the past... )

y do jews deserve a country?
we have our own history/culture/language/religion/land we ruled 3000years ago,and are the only ppl who managed to stay alive in this land and make it into a successful state/country.
all the mighty empires that controled this region are all long gone...

do the palestinians have any of the above? that differs them from the ppl in the many countries surrounding Israel, NO!!!
Everything that's wrong with the world is encapsulated in these pithy statements. Two sides both bleating "They suck. We rule!" It's re-god-damned-diculous. Fighting over what? Everybody on both sides wants the same thing, to live healthy, productive lives. And guess what- the town really *is* "big enough for the both of us", but no, your inherent, ignorant tribalism won't allow for co-existence, let alone peace. Good fucking game.

And the saddest thing of all, if your various "paradises'" and "promised lands" weren't built on top of the treasure, we would neither know nor care that you savages can't get over your ignorant hatred.

[xladead]

unfor-nice to just take one part of the reason...
y not go on and point out how the palestinains do not have theyr own traditions/history/culture/language/religion ... unlike the kurds for example who still dont have theyr own country...

veekachu- dont think i stated "they suck we rule" (concerning palestinians)
... its simple facts actualy, there is no difference between a palestinian arab and a jordanian arab.
in MY personal opinion they do not deserve a state..
however im also realistic and a 2state solution is kinda the only solution and i agree with it.
there wont be any co-existence when one side is willing to comprimize and the other simply doesnt...they dont want the hand..they want the whole damn body.

[Verty]

however im also realistic and a 2state solution is kinda the only solution and i agree with it.
there wont be any co-existence when one side is willing to comprimize and the other simply doesnt...they dont want the hand..they want the whole damn body.

Problem is, both sides don't want to compromize. Plus, all the arabs countries have different goals and therefore can't even agree, like the arab league showed several decades ago.

[Unfor]

traditions/history/culture/language/religion ... unlike the kurds for example who still dont have theyr own country...

It simply does not help your argument as not everyone is of the opinion that these aforementioned features (that you personally regard as integral or necessary) are definitive aspects that are required for some group of people to have any claim as a nation. This suggests that we, as Americans, have no real claim to where we live as there were prior inhabitants who had a much deeper rooted history and culture- keep in mind, this is just a, non-contemporary, comparitive example (perhaps a bad one, but oh well, it will have to suffice). My point is that these are hurtful words that don't add anything particularly positive- though you may just be trying to defend yourself. Trust me, I understand (more than you will ever know) and concede that the ground may indeed be more sacred for the average Israeli because of the religious and ethnic implications (to which there is no real complement for the average Falestine/Arab).

Rest assured, I did read what you wrote:

a 2 state solution is defintly possiable, if the fuckedup terrorists simply stop with this endless fighting...(I fully admit Israel aint no fkn saint,and has done/doing terrible acts over the past 50years)

so how will this basicly end?.. it will end when the hatred is stoped.. it will end when hamas stops teaching lil kids that there were no jews in Israel prior to 1948.. and how to build bombs and shoot ak47s...
it will end when this unbelieveable hate and anger from both sides just gets tierd... ;\

Absolutely.

However, let's always keep this little excerpt in mind:

there is no justification for dead children in the streets (wether they are israeli or arab).

In order for any us to accomplish anything, there has to be some discernable level of positive recognition from both sides. I'm not even talking about the global or political scale- I'm referring to the individual level- how one person perceives the other (as this is where the change must start). If you clump all 'Arabs' together without acknowledging that different groups and countries potentially have different cultures and ambitions (though, it may not appear so from an exterior perspective), I assure you it won't benefit anyone.

only solution i see is some major event.. (i.e. 2nukes on Japan and they surrenderd..)
u wont find a german today that believes germany can take over the world...

I can assure you, however, that large-scale violence is not the solution to this seemingly endless conflict and it is always unfortunate when it becomes regarded as a viable option for anything.

[SoulEdge]

who is this dead fool?

[MV8]

Can anyone demonstrate when the "palestinians" compromised during any of the last dozen attempts at a compromise solution? From what I have seen, the World demands that Israel give up the lands it occupied from previous wars started by the Arabs, and the Arabs, simply continue to launch rockets and bombs at israel.

[larcain]

As I understand it, the deal was that Israel would pull out of Lebanon and Lebanon was responsible for disarming and controlling Hezbollah. Near as I can tell, Israel is not occupying Lebanon, and NO ONE is controlling (well...other than Syria/Iran) Hezbollah. Now, Israel gets sick of the being the only one living up to their end of the deal and the UN wants a cease fire. Swell.

[car]

Somebody explain to me how the Arabs are the terrorists and the Zionists are the victims. Hizbollah and Hamas were both voted in by the "all-healing, problem-fixing" democracy from the west and somehow the west won't accept the elections. They both have military parts that are completely accepted by the people. They captured 3 soldiers when Israel invaded their UN-defined territories. Israel has captured (hijacked from their homes) 10,000 Arabs while they were in Palestine and Lebanon (including thousands of civilians and democratically elected officials - women and children included) but somehow thats alright? Hizbollah is the evil terrorist group launching rockets into civilian areas while Israel is doing the exact same thing the only differences are that Israel is much more effective at killing civilians and that they have the ability to fight without civilian killings. Open your eyes America its no wonder that while the rest of the worlds governments are kissing your feet begging for donations their people are burning your flags. Oh and by the way, there are 6 million Palestinian refugees scattered around the world that Israel refuses to let back into Palestine, defying literally hundreds of UN orders and resolutions. But no, dont worry about that, Israeli lives are worth more than Arabs lives and America should just continue to blindly add to the $3 trillion dollar donation fund that is Israel because they are leading the war on terror.

ps: Smack, you're pathetic.

[Ignatz]

Somebody explain to me how the Arabs are the terrorists and the Zionists are the victims. Hizbollah and Hamas were both voted in by the "all-healing, problem-fixing" democracy from the west and somehow the west won't accept the elections. They both have military parts that are completely accepted by the people. They captured 3 soldiers when Israel invaded their UN-defined territories. Israel has captured (hijacked from their homes) 10,000 Arabs while they were in Palestine and Lebanon (including thousands of civilians and democratically elected officials - women and children included) but somehow thats alright? Hizbollah is the evil terrorist group launching rockets into civilian areas while Israel is doing the exact same thing the only differences are that Israel is much more effective at killing civilians and that they have the ability to fight without civilian killings. Open your eyes America its no wonder that while the rest of the worlds governments are kissing your feet begging for donations their people are burning your flags. Oh and by the way, there are 6 million Palestinian refugees scattered around the world that Israel refuses to let back into Palestine, defying literally hundreds of UN orders and resolutions. But no, dont worry about that, Israeli lives are worth more than Arabs lives and America should just continue to blindly add to the $3 trillion dollar donation fund that is Israel because they are leading the war on terror.

ps: Smack, you're pathetic.
Oh really? Why? I already said I'm not totally on Israel's side.

Nothing you said justifies why Hezbollah should continue to pretend they're a legitimate Islamic army with a real chance of engaging, let alone defeating, Israel in an "open war," when all they really do is use their worthless rhetoric to inspire utterly naive and uneducated young men to suicide themselves and murder women and children in the process, believing that it will lead them to salvation and happiness, while simultaneously ensuring that they stay in poverty and hopelessness. If you can in any way justify Hezbollah's tactics, without simply saying they're all OK because Israel is evil, I'd love to hear it.

[Express]

Yes, world, there is a silent Arab majority that believes that seventh-century Islam is not fit for 21st-century challenges. That women do not have to look like walking black tents. That men do not have to wear beards and robes, act like lunatics, and run around blowing themselves up in order to enjoy 72 virgins in paradise. And that secular laws, not Islamic Shariah, should rule our day-to-day lives.

And yes, we, the silent Arab majority, do not believe that writers, secular or otherwise, should be killed or banned for expressing their views. Or that the rest of our creative elite - from moviemakers to playwrights, actors, painters, sculptors, and fashion models - should be vetted by Neanderthal Muslim imams who have never read a book in their dim, miserable lives.

Nor do we believe that little men with head wraps and disheveled beards can run amok in Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Iraq making decisions on our behalf, dragging us to war whenever they please, confiscating our rights to be adults, and flogging us for not praying five times a day or even for not believing in God.

More important, we are not silent any longer.

Interesting.

http://www.nysun.com/pf.php?id=36110

[car]

Xladead, you're from Israel lol. How ignorant. Seriously, Palestine doesn't deserve their own country? Are you stupid? Palestine was a country until Jews were given permission to settle there by the UN. It's Israel that doesn't deserve to be a country, my friend. Is there really a question as to why Palestinians hate Israelis? You bastards bulldozed their lands and forced thousands upon thousands of refugees to settle elsewhere in the world, mostly in Jordan. This is the ignorance I just can't stand. Open your eyes. Fuck, the Israeli media must somehow (and I really mean that) more biased than the American media. Go slaughter Palestinian civilians by the thousands, you know the ones who are fighting for land that was once theirs. How silly. Just back down, don't even bother posting your bullshit filth.

[car]

Oh really? Why? I already said I'm not totally on Israel's side.

Nothing you said justifies why Hezbollah should continue to pretend they're a legitimate Islamic army with a real chance of engaging, let alone defeating, Israel in an "open war," when all they really do is use their worthless rhetoric to inspire utterly naive and uneducated young men to suicide themselves and murder women and children in the process, believing that it will lead them to salvation and happiness, while simultaneously ensuring that they stay in poverty and hopelessness. If you can in any way justify Hezbollah's tactics, without simply saying they're all OK because Israel is evil, I'd love to hear it.

I called you pathetic because of your first post.

Lol. Now, your issue is why they are claiming they are a legitimate organized army force..and you want me to justify it? Wouldn't you rather have me justify why Hizballah is even going to war? Isn't that the bigger issue? I really don't think it matters how they depict themselves. I think I explained well enough in my first post why Hizballah thinks it's necessary to go to war. Can you even compare the civilian casualties of Lebanon and Israel? And as for why they even captured the Israeli soldiers..they were on Lebanese soil lol. That's what really started the civilian casualties flowing. You really expect Lebanon/Hizballah to sit back and take it? I think Lebanon fighting back si necessary. This isn't the first time they came onto Lebanese soil when they weren't supposed to. Hizballah just decided to actually do something about it.

[car]

One last thing, it should be Israel sacrificing and making deals with Palestine, not the other way around. Israel shouldn't even be a country. The Palestinians shouldn't have to compromise anything. The Jews settled against their will, and got greedy. They took more and more and more land that they weren't even supposed to. And you all fault them for becoming suicide bombers and terrorists. What would you do? You have no weapons, you're all living in poverty. You see an opportunity to make a difference, why wouldn't you take it? It's all you can do. Imagine someone designating half of the United States as the land of <insert ethnicity here>. Okay, not too bad. Just half, and maybe we can live in peace with them? Oh but wait, they want more land. Woops sorry just going to bulldoze a few million homes. Yeah, no biggie and how about we ship you off to Mexico to live in refugee camps. Uh huh, great. There are few who wouldn't take the opportunity to attack this growing entity. And the 'new country' with the backing of several super powers, there's absolutely nothing you can do. You can't stand up to them, you can only lay attacks here and there that are desperate attempts to gain some attention so the rest of the world can wake the fuck up and realize 'Wow, that really isn't justice.'

I'm not really trying to advocate suicide bombing, I'm sure there are better ways to deal with the situation. I'm simply trying to put you guys in the situation of the Palestinians and realize that to a certain degree, it is justifiable and they are not terrorists for defending their homes.

Of course you see that Israel is trying so hard to compromise. America and Israel are brothers, if not father and son. What you see is the American censorship. You see what the big wigs of America want you to see.I want you all to read this article, and get educated:

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/editorials/signs20060717_22RecognizetheCentralityofthePalesti neQuestion22AnInterviewwithGeorgeGalloway.php

Just a little food for thought:
MOORE: You've taken a close interest in the Palestinian issue. Are you surprised that the international community has not condemned Israel's consistently aggressive stance against Gaza?

GALLOWAY: I'm not at all surprised. I'm dismally reconciled to the gigantic double standard that lies at the heart of Western policy towards the Middle East and the Muslim world. I have long become inured to the double standard that allows Israel to have hundreds of nuclear weapons and refuse to join the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, yet be rewarded by the West, whilst Iran has no nuclear weapons, has joined the Non-Proliferation Treaty and is, according to Seymour Hersh in the New Yorker, facing a devastating war.

I am dismally aware of the extent to which the blood of Palestinians is not worth anything like the blood of Israelis, still less the blood of Westerners. A good case in point was on the BBC's Question Time when every single member of the panel knew the name of the Israeli occupation soldier 'kidnapped' by the resistance, and they felt they had to pay endless sympathies to his family.

I found myself screaming at the television: "Can any of you name a single Palestinian victim, just say in the last 12 days, when 24 Palestinians, mostly women and children were killed by Israel in bomb, shell and rocket attacks?" No one knows the names of these victims, no one describes the Palestinian leaders who were kidnapped and languish in Israeli dungeons. All were seized in exactly the same way as this Israeli solder was seized. This is a double standard that does not occur to most people, but is endlessly burrowing away in my mind.

The article is outstanding. Please read. Should change at least some of your pro-Israeli/American views.

[Moniker]

Somebody explain to me how the Arabs are the terrorists and the Zionists are the victims. Easy; the Arabs instigate the conflict while the Israelis respond out of the necessity of self-preservation. Their enemy only understands force, as we've seen diplomacy fail multiple times.

What you fail to understand is that Israel is basically making calculated strikes against their enemies because their enemies keep pursuing aggressive actions against it. Not to mention, they've been going through a great many pains to minimize civilian casualties. You don't have the first fucking clue on how hard it is to locate, identify, and attack targets with precision munitions and minimize collateral damage, ESPECIALLY when your enemy is keen on hiding their offensive military assets in civilian areas.

It may not be pretty or fair, but Israel HAS to give a lopsided response because force is the only thing that will keep them off their backs. Israel has to respond so forcefully that the cost of attacking an Israeli is so great that it's simply not worth the trouble. There is a definite military necessity with what they're doing right now.

What's the number 1 easiest way to bring about peace in the middle east? Stop fucking with Israel. Just leave them the fuck alone. Don't lob rockets at them. Don't talk to them, don't even look at them. Just leave them to their own lives. But nooooo, they are infidels and must be driven into the sea at any cost. I'm sorry, but once you've gotten your ass kicked in war 400 times, there comes a point in which you throw in the towel and accept the fucking reality of the situation.

The problem is that groups like Hezbollah and Hamas refuse to accept this reality, and keep instigating this conflict. They thrive on desperation and combating the evil Zionist empire because that's what keeps them in power. As long as there's a conflict, there's a reason for them to exist (much like a government bureacracy).

[stas]

wow car. how can you call others ignorant when you think palestine was actually a nation? and you also think the soldiers were captured on lebanese soldier? rofl. educate yourself before you come here preaching to everyone else about what you think the facts are.

[car]

Sorry double post.


They were on Lebanese soil lol. That's what provoked it. They were on Lebanese soil, but I don't know if they were actually captured on Lebanese soil. Go watch your American media and find the 'truth'. Rofl. And I'll take information from someone who can actually talk, many thanks. "captured on Lebanese soldier". Cute. Put some thought into your post if you want me to take it seriously.

edit: And I didn't say it was a nation. I used the word 'country' loosely, you wanker. Figured you'd know what I meant.

edit 2: Here's some background that I remember (just to put it all into perspective for ya): It was just a region under the Ottoman Empire until it all became a British mandate. After that the British mandate was split, wasn't it? Into Jordan and Palestine/Jewland. As the Jews started taking over, they forced the Palestinian Arabs into Jordan as refugees. I was referring to Palestine, the part of the mandate that was split in half and wasn't Jordan? The future Israel. So anything else, tough guy? How's the American media treating you? I'm sure anything you learn from there will contradict what I said, but how about you do some research before you open your goddamn mouth. You know, from somewhere that isn't cnn.com or .gov.

[car]

Easy; the Arabs instigate the conflict while the Israelis respond out of the necessity of self-preservation. Their enemy only understands force, as we've seen diplomacy fail multiple times.

What you fail to understand is that Israel is basically making calculated strikes against their enemies because their enemies keep pursuing aggressive actions against it. Not to mention, they've been going through a great many pains to minimize civilian casualties. You don't have the first fucking clue on how hard it is to locate, identify, and attack targets with precision munitions and minimize collateral damage, ESPECIALLY when your enemy is keen on hiding their offensive military assets in civilian areas.

It may not be pretty or fair, but Israel HAS to give a lopsided response because force is the only thing that will keep them off their backs. Israel has to respond so forcefully that the cost of attacking an Israeli is so great that it's simply not worth the trouble. There is a definite military necessity with what they're doing right now.

What's the number 1 easiest way to bring about peace in the middle east? Stop fucking with Israel. Just leave them the fuck alone. Don't lob rockets at them. Don't talk to them, don't even look at them. Just leave them to their own lives. But nooooo, they are infidels and must be driven into the sea at any cost. I'm sorry, but once you've gotten your ass kicked in war 400 times, there comes a point in which you throw in the towel and accept the fucking reality of the situation.

The problem is that groups like Hezbollah and Hamas refuse to accept this reality, and keep instigating this conflict. They thrive on desperation and combating the evil Zionist empire because that's what keeps them in power. As long as there's a conflict, there's a reason for them to exist (much like a government bureacracy).

I agree, but the reason they don't 'accept the reality' is that Israel shouldn't even be a nation. And the last part of your post is true to a certain extent, but come on, you don't actually completely believe all of that do you? And don't act like Israel is such an amazing nation. Where do you think they get their money, their weapons?

There's something you don't understand about Islam and Arabs. This isn't about power. They don't need this conflict to have power. It gives their organization a reason to exist, but you really think they need that to get power? They don't. They work for the people, and they work by the people.

[mulisha]

They work for the people, and they work by the people.

You just lost all credibility on that one there buddy.

[car]

You just lost all credibility on that one there buddy.

Prove I'm wrong and I'll stand down. You guys watch CNN and look at the AMERICAN MEDIA, ofcourse you think they just want power. Give me a break, look at the articles from the website I posted. Don't be so stupid.

Lol here's something you should know about the American media: anything that isn't in favor of Israel, isn't in favor of America. Get some unbiased material and if you can still prove me wrong then I'll become pro-Israel and never say anything about Palestine ever again.

[car]

Anyone with something unbiased and sensical to say that isn't derived straight from the American media? I'm waiting.

[stas]

Sorry double post.


They were on Lebanese soil lol. And I'll take information from someone who can actually talk, many thanks.

edit: And I didn't say it was a nation. I used the word 'country' loosely, you wanker. Figured you'd know what I meant.

well at least provide me with a link "wanker" so that i can see where it says they were taken on lebanese soil.

and how does a country differ from a nation? are you depending on semantics now to get you off the hook?

as far as sensical lol, you write off every point as brainwashed by american media or swayed by israel. i have a feeling the only people youd take seriously are the ones who agree with you, though thats no surprise.

[mulisha]

Prove I'm wrong and I'll stand down. You guys watch CNN and look at the AMERICAN MEDIA, ofcourse you think they just want power. Give me a break, look at the articles from the website I posted. Don't be so stupid.

Lol here's something you should know about the American media: anything that isn't in favor of Israel, isn't in favor of America. Get some unbiased material and if you can still prove me wrong then I'll become pro-Israel and never say anything about Palestine ever again.

No, it's not about power. It is about destroying the other side and taking the land. If they were for the people like you said, they would be going through diplomatic measures that they constantly reject when Israel is willing. Think about it. This flareup is with Hezbollah mostly anyways. The same militant group that the UN ordered to be disarmed. In essense, you have Hezbollah holding the Lebanese Government hostage and hiding in their land/buildings. Lebanon does not want them there but if they were to do anything, it would be a civil war. It's funny how you talk about bias in the media though when you have "free palestine" in your sig.

Oh btw, the Israeli soldiers taken by Hezbollah were on Israeli soil. They ambushed the troops across the border killing and capturing some. Not to mention the fact they have been sending rockets over the border for months now. But I guess Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself?

[car]

Let me simplify the conflict down: Do you really think it's fair for an outside force to dictate who lives and who doesn't live in your country? To dictate that this piece of land (PART OF YOUR COUNTRY) goes to this group of people and now you have to live somewhere else?

To be honest, I don't, and anyone who does is an idiot lol. Gogo Zionists. Get your three trillion dollar pity money from the world. Blow up every attack on yourself into some amazingly big deal, and keep your own terroristic attacks a secret.

Open your eyes. Don't let the media do the thinking for you. Logically think about it. Most of the Zionist support comes from outside of Israel. Many people in Israel would gladly give land that is rightfully not theirs in order to resolve the conflict (according to recent statistics). It's big wiggs in America that are playing upon the pity of other nations to send in money and force to Israel...I know it's hard to fathom guys, but America for once (/sarcasm) ISN'T one of the good guys in this situation.

[car]

No, it's not about power. It is about destroying the other side and taking the land. If they were for the people like you said, they would be going through diplomatic measures that they constantly reject when Israel is willing. Think about it. This flareup is with Hezbollah mostly anyways. The same militant group that the UN ordered to be disarmed. In essense, you have Hezbollah holding the Lebanese Government hostage and hiding in their land/buildings. Lebanon does not want them there but if they were to do anything, it would be a civil war. It's funny how you talk about bias in the media though when you have "free palestine" in your sig.

Oh btw, the Israeli soldiers taken by Hezbollah were on Israeli soil. They ambushed the troops across the border killing and capturing some. Not to mention the fact they have been sending rockets over the border for months now. But I guess Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself?

Then my mistake. But you can't deny that Israeli soldiers have been coming onto Lebanese soil for a very long time. And no, this is (I repeat IS) what the people want. Hamas was democratically appointed, hence why the west has such a big problem with it. About Hizballah, I've been to Lebanon, I've talked to Lebanese. I'll tell you one thing, many MANY people want Hizballah to take action. Once again to prove they are for the people, they captured the soldiers to release some of the thousands of Arab prisoners that are kept captive. It wasn't unprovoked, they wanted to release some of theirs. Did you read that excerpt of the website that I gave you? Please do.

And you're right, I do have 'free palestine' in my sig? You know why? Because it's what's right.

[mulisha]

Let me simplify the conflict down: Do you really think it's fair for an outside force to dictate who lives and who doesn't live in your country? To dictate that this piece of land (PART OF YOUR COUNTRY) goes to this group of people and now you have to live somewhere else?

To be honest, I don't, and anyone who does is an idiot lol. Gogo Zionists. Get your three trillion dollar pity money from the world. Blow up every attack on yourself into some amazingly big deal, and keep your own terroristic attacks a secret.

Open your eyes. Don't let the media do the thinking for you. Logically think about it. Most of the Zionist support comes from outside of Israel. Many people in Israel would gladly give land that is rightfully not theirs in order to resolve the conflict (according to recent statistics). It's big wiggs in America that are playing upon the pity of other nations to send in money and force to Israel...I know it's hard to fathom guys, but America for once (/sarcasm) ISN'T one of the good guys in this situation.

Israel is willing to give Palestinians land, yes. But the Palestinian rejects the offers and wants it all. And before, Britain had control over the region and gave it up to the UN to decided thus creating Israel. It was a British controlled region that switched to an Israeli state. What's done is done, there is no use arguing a 60 year UN mandate. And please, quit bringing up the media bullshit arguments. The majority of the people here look at news media outlets outside of the US in addition to those inside. You are completely ignoring the circumstances in this situation and going on tirades against Israel. I mean, it's pretty obvious you hate them and are a diehard supporter of Palestine. I know it's hard for you to fathom but Israel isn't the bad guy here.

Regarding your sig, you may think it's right but I don't. Of course in your eyes, you assume that I'm brainwashed by the American media.

[mulisha]

Then my mistake. But you can't deny that Israeli soldiers have been coming onto Lebanese soil for a very long time. And no, this is (I repeat IS) what the people want. Hamas was democratically appointed, hence why the west has such a big problem with it. About Hizballah, I've been to Lebanon, I've talked to Lebanese. I'll tell you one thing, many MANY people want Hizballah to take action. Once again to prove they are for the people, they captured the soldiers to release some of the thousands of Arab prisoners that are kept captive. It wasn't unprovoked, they wanted to release some of theirs. Did you read that excerpt of the website that I gave you? Please do.

And you're right, I do have 'free palestine' in my sig? You know why? Because it's what's right.

Actually, Israel has been out of Lebanon for 6 years when they pulled out according to the agreement in which Hezbollah would be done away with. Guess what, Israel held up its part of the agreement. Hezbollah kept attacking repeatedly and now Israel is going to get rid of them themselves.

And yes, let's invade a country's sovereignty, kill and capture their soldiers, then demand them to release convicted felons in return for those soldiers. Sounds about right.

[car]

Israel is willing to give Palestinians land, yes. But the Palestinian rejects the offers and wants it all. And before, Britain had control over the region and gave it up to the UN to decided thus creating Israel. It was a British controlled region that switched to an Israeli state. What's done is done, there is no use arguing a 60 year UN mandate. And please, quit bringing up the media bullshit arguments. The majority of the people here look at news media outlets outside of the US in addition to those inside. You are completely ignoring the circumstances in this situation and going on tirades against Israel. I mean, it's pretty obvious you hate them and are a diehard supporter of Palestine. I know it's hard for you to fathom but Israel isn't the bad guy here.

Regarding your sig, you may think it's right but I don't. Of course in your eyes, you assume that I'm brainwashed by the American media.

No, they really don't look up media outside the US.

In the mind of a Palestinian, they deserve all of the land back as would anyone whose land was taken away and given to someone else. No wait, you're different. If your land was given to someone else (by an outside force, not even your own country), you'd have absolutely no problem with it. Yessir. Are you retarded?

In my opinion, the Palestinians should take what they can get from it and live. But come on, how can you blame them? Their own land was taken away unjustly, you really think they'd want less than everything back? Or atleast less than half back? Come on, be reasonable. Put yourself in their situation. That's something you and the rest of America fail to do. Britain controlled the region, split it, the region got hot, gave it up, and the UN put what's modern into play. I agree, you shouldn't be arguing over it still today, but put yourself in their position. If it was you, you'd be arguing over it as well.

Again, I'll repeat myself. I don't think violence is the answer, and I don't think what the Palestinians are doing is necessarily right, but I think you need to get out of the mindset that the Palestinians are the enemy. That's really all I ask about anyone. They aren't the enemy, they are defending themselves, their homes, their families. I recommend you watch 'Paradise Now'. Oh and if you get a chance, browse the site I linked you to.

I have nothing against anyone on this forum, I'm not trying to make enemies. I just want to point out that Israelis are not completely right, despite what the American media tells you (hey there it is again). You know why I keep saying it? Call me crazy, but uuhhhh it's true?

[car]

Actually, Israel has been out of Lebanon for 6 years when they pulled out according to the agreement in which Hezbollah would be done away with. Guess what, Israel held up its part of the agreement. Hezbollah kept attacking repeatedly and now Israel is going to get rid of them themselves.

And yes, let's invade a country's sovereignty, kill and capture their soldiers, then demand them to release convicted felons in return for those soldiers. Sounds about right.

What are you talking about? The Israelis stepped onto Lebanese ground where they weren't supposed to go. And no, as I mentioned before, these aren't all 'convicted felons'. Most of these prisoners were taken exactly as those Israeli soldiers were taken. Sorry 'buddy'.


ps: Wouldn't you rather argue on something more immediate? This is really irritating.

[schtoofa]

Anyone with something unbiased and sensical to say that isn't derived straight from the American media? I'm waiting.

Where do you get your news?

[ohman]

edit 2: Here's some background that I remember (just to put it all into perspective for ya): It was just a region under the Ottoman Empire until it all became a British mandate. After that the British mandate was split, wasn't it? Into Jordan and Palestine/Jewland. As the Jews started taking over, they forced the Palestinian Arabs into Jordan as refugees. I was referring to Palestine, the part of the mandate that was split in half and wasn't Jordan? The future Israel. So anything else, tough guy? How's the American media treating you? I'm sure anything you learn from there will contradict what I said, but how about you do some research before you open your goddamn mouth. You know, from somewhere that isn't cnn.com or .gov.
You tell us to learn our history, and then you spout this utter crock of shit into this thread? Even Palestinian apologists would have trouble agreeing with you.

After the British Mandate expired the land was split, with 55% going to the "Jews" and 45% going to the Arabs, with Jerusalem remaining an international zone, to avoid conflict over its status. Of course, after this was decided Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq (read: Arab nations) declared war on the new "Jew" state. The Haganah and Irgun (the precursors to the IDF) were able to repel this Arab aggression (which, it was), at least until the UN could declare a cease fire, at which point the IDF was officially formed. At this point, Jordan illegally annexed the West Bank (hmm... what group of people claim(ed) that?), and Egypt controlled the Gaza Strip (once again, what group of people claim(ed) that?). Of course, after the 1967 6 Day War in which Israel utterly destroyed several Arab nations (and probably would have gone all the way to Cairo without the US telling Israel to cool off), these lands (along with several other pieces, chiefly the entire Sinai Penninsula) were claimed by Israel. Of course, the Sinai Penninsula (a hugely important buffer region) was returned to Egypt, and several other land claims were ceded to Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.

Now, Jordan illegally annexed the West Bank for 19 years, lost it in 1967, yet somehow in 1988 thought they would be able to cede it to the PLO. The Palestinians have never had a valid claim to the land, beyond the fact they lived there. We saw how well that argument worked for the Native Americans, didn't we? (Well, I did. You obviously didn't pay much attention in school).

Then my mistake. But you can't deny that Israeli soldiers have been coming onto Lebanese soil for a very long time. And no, this is (I repeat IS) what the people want. Hamas was democratically appointed, hence why the west has such a big problem with it. About Hizballah, I've been to Lebanon, I've talked to Lebanese. I'll tell you one thing, many MANY people want Hizballah to take action. Once again to prove they are for the people, they captured the soldiers to release some of the thousands of Arab prisoners that are kept captive. It wasn't unprovoked, they wanted to release some of theirs. Did you read that excerpt of the website that I gave you? Please do.

And you're right, I do have 'free palestine' in my sig? You know why? Because it's what's right.
Actually, we can. The last time any Israel troops set foot in Lebanon was in 2000, when Israel pulled out of the southern region. The West has a problem with HAMAS because its stated goal is the destruction of a soveriegn nation. That kind of rhetoric is generally frowned upon by the rest of the world. The same thing goes with Hezbollah. Both of these terrorist groups are legitimately represented in their respective countries' government, as such, the populace of those countries are responsible for the actions of those groups. I am a huge fan for collective punishment when there is collective responsibility. So while I hate to see bombs being dropped in Beirut, I can't help but feel that they got what was coming to them.

Now, you seem to be greatly confused about the history of Hezbollah itself, and how Hezbollah pretty much had to act, or risk being inconsequential in the upcoming decades. Hezbollah was founded by Iran, and is supported by Syria and Iran. While Syria still occupied Lebanon, they were idealogically linked to Iran, but strategically linked to Syria. Syria was able to use them to stir up Israeli ire, but was also able to check Hezbollah should it become too active. With the pullout of Syria, Hezbollah no longer had those checks, and no longer had a justificiation for telling their new recruits to take it easy. Add in one part Iran upset at watching Al Queda become the premier radical Islamic group, and one part Syria washing their hands of Hezbollah oversight, and you get this.

What are you talking about? The Israelis stepped onto Lebanese ground where they weren't supposed to go. And no, as I mentioned before, these aren't all 'convicted felons'. Most of these prisoners were taken exactly as those Israeli soldiers were taken. Sorry 'buddy'.


ps: Wouldn't you rather argue on something more immediate? This is really irritating.
Please provide a source for this. Even the BBC, with their wild "lets paint Israel as the aggressor" stance, has said that Hezbollah crossed over into Israeli territory. A tank did give chase, but was disabled by an anti-tank device, I would guess this is what is confusing you.

[car]

well at least provide me with a link "wanker" so that i can see where it says they were taken on lebanese soil.

and how does a country differ from a nation? are you depending on semantics now to get you off the hook?

as far as sensical lol, you write off every point as brainwashed by american media or swayed by israel. i have a feeling the only people youd take seriously are the ones who agree with you, though thats no surprise.

Op, sorry about that. Didn't see this post. I just acknowledged I was wrong, and if you'd like I could try to fish up the link where I saw that Israeli soldiers stepped onto Lebanese soil where they weren't supposed to before. I must've read the article wrong haha. I think it was done in retaliation of Israeli soldiers previously stepping on Lebanese ground, rather than those particular soldiers.

I take every argument seriously, and I think about it. But how you present your argument leads me to believe someone over someone else (say, in your case, not using any punctuation, using run-ons, poor grammar, blah blah blah). And I'm going to keep on assuming you get all your facts from sites like CNN until I see otherwise.

[car]

Where do you get your news?

The site I posted above.

[larcain]

Let me simplify the conflict down: Do you really think it's fair for an outside force to dictate who lives and who doesn't live in your country? To dictate that this piece of land (PART OF YOUR COUNTRY) goes to this group of people and now you have to live somewhere else?


Could have sworn we had established that Palastine had not been a country...

[car]

Ohman, that's all I'm asking for. People to learn about the conflict. My hats off to you.

I never told anyone to learn the 'history'. I told people to search for sources other than CNN that say otherwise. Please refer to the website i posted above for information I receive. And you may be right, the website could've been talking about the tank. I don't know, I just don't like to refer to CNN or BBC, that's what I recall the site saying. I can try to fish the articles up if you want me to.

Now that you're done lecturing me over history, what is your stance?

[schtoofa]

The site I posted above.

that's the only place? c'mon, you can do better than having one single news source...

[mulisha]

The site I posted above.

The same site that had this "unbiased" news on their front page?

Another day, another slaughter. That's the latest news from the Middle East in a nutshell.

Over the weekend, Israel stepped up its attacks on Lebanon, killing who knows how many innocent people. Of course, the Zionists running Israel claim that they're battling terrorists and after George W. Bush popularized the infamous "pre-emptive strike", no one in the international community has the cajones to stand up tell Israel point-blank to back down. Besides, everyone knows that the US arrives loaded for bear at any and all UN gatherings and shoots down any ideas that Israel doesn't like; it's already happened over, and over, and over again.

Lets also not bring up the gems regarding neoconservatism, 9/11 conspiracy theories, and the fact that all their coverage of this conflict is called "Israeli War Crimes."

[car]

Could have sworn we had established that Palastine had not been a country...

Uh okay, imagine youre living in a 'territory of land' that belongs to mostly one people (your people). People from the outside conquer it and tell you that your land is going to be taken over, so you'd better move into refugee camps. Seriously, it was a metaphor, does it matter if I use country for the metaphor?

[ohman]

Op, sorry about that. Didn't see this post. I just acknowledged I was wrong, and if you'd like I could try to fish up the link where I saw that Israeli soldiers stepped onto Lebanese soil where they weren't supposed to before. I must've read the article wrong haha. I think it was done in retaliation of Israeli soldiers previously stepping on Lebanese ground, rather than those particular soldiers.

I take every argument seriously, and I think about it. But how you present your argument leads me to believe someone over someone else (say, in your case, not using any punctuation, using run-ons, poor grammar, blah blah blah). And I'm going to keep on assuming you get all your facts from sites like CNN until I see otherwise.
Hezbollah has been using southern Lebanon as a staging ground for their rocket assaults on Israel since May 2000, merely a few days after Israel disengaged. It was done because the reality of the middle east is radically different than 2000. Two things lead to a general destabilization of the region: Syria withdrawing from Lebanon, and HAMAS' crushing defeat of Fatah in the Palestinian Legislative Council elections. HAMAS' rise to prominence (even pre-elections) meant that everything was ripe for the taking. Hezbollah, rightly seeing the writing on the wall, had to make a move, or risk being relegated to a Lebanese only organization. This necessitated an action to show that it was both willing to take risks, and to be effective. With HAMAS' large margin of victory, it meant even moreso that Hezbollah had to show themselves to be the most effective of any such groups. The aging leaders might have been less that excited about making such a jump, but the younger generation most likely saw this as their chance, finally free of Syrian control. Whatever the reason, they made their move.

[stas]

I have nothing against anyone on this forum, I'm not trying to make enemies. I just want to point out that Israelis are not completely right, despite what the American media tells you (hey there it is again). You know why I keep saying it? Call me crazy, but uuhhhh it's true?

im sure http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/ is not biased at all, i mean it only has several columns down at the bottom titled "israeli war crimes" and "american fascism".

theres a wonderful link to the "signs guide (http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/signsguide.htm), where it has such useful tidbits about george bush as :
"Comes from a long line of psychopaths and Nazi supporters."

dear lord how did i not see it all from the beginning? car is right! he reads unbiased news and references such wonderfully unbiased websites as this one! guys its all true! :rolleyes:

[car]

The same site that had this "unbiased" news on their front page?

It comes from people who are there. I'd trust that more than the media from onlookers thousands of miles away. Not neutral onlookers though, incase that was what you were thinking. They already have an allegience, and they can choose to cover up whatever they want to support their side. I'd take information coming from those suffering over the information of those doing the suffering, lol. Take the United States in Iraq. You really think the US doesn't have them censor what goes out? I recently talked to a soldier telling me what actually happens, and what they are forced to cover up.

edit: Thanks for looking at the site. I really appreciate it.

edit 2: I read American media and that, and I choose a medium inbetween. I watch Al Jezeera (sp lol) and CNN, and choose a medium inbetween. I don't take them straight from the site, I try to moderate. But I tend to choose a medium closer to one side than the other, obviously.

[mulisha]

Ohman, that's all I'm asking for. People to learn about the conflict. My hats off to you.

I never told anyone to learn the 'history'. I told people to search for sources other than CNN that say otherwise. Please refer to the website i posted above for information I receive. And you may be right, the website could've been talking about the tank. I don't know, I just don't like to refer to CNN or BBC, that's what I recall the site saying. I can try to fish the articles up if you want me to.

Now that you're done lecturing me over history, what is your stance?

You know British media is typically slanted heavily against Israel right?

[car]

Maybe I'll look into it. Thanks.

edit: And read what it says. How aren't those war crimes?

[stas]

I take every argument seriously, and I think about it. But how you present your argument leads me to believe someone over someone else (say, in your case, not using any punctuation, using run-ons, poor grammar, blah blah blah). And I'm going to keep on assuming you get all your facts from sites like CNN until I see otherwise.

ah yes, the "i understood everything that you said but your argument is poor because you didnt adhere to the forum-mandated english rules" argument. oh so convincing. also, well done on the "i dont like your facts so ill assume they are from somewhere i dont trust so i dont have to listen to them" argument, once again well played sir!

[larcain]

Uh okay, imagine youre living in a 'territory of land' that belongs to mostly one people (your people). People from the outside conquer it and tell you that your land is going to be taken over, so you'd better move into refugee camps. Seriously, it was a metaphor, does it matter if I use country for the metaphor?

Just a question, and yes it is indelicate, but since you speak as though you are not an American, or at least as though you wish you weren't an American, you don't happen to be from that part of the world do you?

[ohman]

Now that you're done lecturing me over history, what is your stance?
Ahh, surprising, I guess you aren't a troll after all.

Whats my take? I'll probably get around to it tomorrow, but I am cautiously pro-Israel, especially in the current situation.

[car]

ah yes, the "i understood everything that you said but your argument is poor because you didnt adhere to the forum-mandated english rules" argument. oh so convincing. also, well done on the "i dont like your facts so ill assume they are from somewhere i dont trust so i dont have to listen to them" argument, once again well played sir!

Well I read both sides, and I chose what was right to believe. Sorry if your information was what I saw on CNN and not else where. Are we still talking about the soldiers not being on Lebanese ground? I cleared this up, but you sure look like a tough guy for repeating this over and over. No really, you look like such a badass, everyone thinks you're so omg smart.

[car]

Ahh, surprising, I guess you aren't a troll after all.

Whats my take? I'll probably get around to it tomorrow, but I am cautiously pro-Israel, especially in the current situation.

I understand. I just want the US as a whole to understand all of the situation, and give a reasonable response to it. Everyone has their own sense of justice, the problem is that most people just aren't educated thanks to CNN and the likes of that.

All I want is for people to understand the conflicts, read up on it, and give some real thought into it instead of following the majority. Thanks for your reponses.

[schtoofa]

After reading their quick guide, that site seems even more biased than the American media (if that's possible).

The real terrorists are in the White House, in the Sharon government, in the intelligence agencies in the US and Israel, in the KGB, in the Kremlin, etc.

I don't really need to explain further about what sort of content I'd expect to find on there. If that's not "A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment" then I don't know what is.

Also, car, I've gotta ask -- what's your family's heritage? You seem pretty enthusiastic about this stuff so I guess I'm curious if the Israelis have hurt your family in the past. (being totally serious here)

[car]

Just a question, and yes it is indelicate, but since you speak as though you are not an American, or at least as though you wish you weren't an American, you don't happen to be from that part of the world do you?

Not directly. And yeah, I'd rather be somewhere else. You're proud of your country at this moment in time? I sure am not, and when I am old enough to make my own decisions, I'm moving away. Not necessarily to the Middle East, but still you get the idea.

[larcain]

Not directly. And yeah, I'd rather be somewhere else. You're proud of your country at this moment in time? I sure am not, and when I am old enough to make my own decisions, I'm moving away. Not necessarily to the Middle East, but still you get the idea.

Old enough to make your own decisions?

[car]

Yes, actually. My father was a Palestinian refugee. His land was bulldozed infront of him, I went there and visited it many years ago. He lived 19 years of his life in a refugee camp, until he finally broke away and became a world renowned pHd in soil sciences. He taught at universities, and eventually came here and settled down, starting a business.

I apologize for being so zealous about all of this. It means a lot to me when I see people like Smack who spout of bullshit about Israel and Palestine when they really don't seem to know what's actually going on. I realize that most of the Academy is full of people who are well-researched, but the people who I'm attacking are the ones who don't know anything. They are the ones who don't feel like it's necessary to look other places than what's there infront of them. Many Israeli supporters hop on the bandwagon and see the Arabs (not just Palestinians) as terrorists in general. That's what I'm trying to fight.

[car]

Old enough to make your own decisions?

Well I was referring to when I live on my own.

[car]

It's very late. I think I'm going to head off to bed. Thanks everyone for your responses, and a thousand apologies to those I've offended.


And stas, if you want to be taken seriously as an adult, try not to be such a douche bag. I was tempted to completely make up bullshit just to make you angry. You're smart, but unfortunately immature.

Again, thanks everyone. I'll see if I have the energy to go at this tomorrow. I'm kinda sick of everyone picking apart every little thing in my post (like I don't know, if I say country in a metaphor). Hop off the bandwagon and stop picking apart my posts for useless shit. You think you look cool attacking the catacombs victim? Just getting your little voice in? Give me a break, this is the academy.

Night.

[stas]

Yes, actually. My father was a Palestinian refugee. His land was bulldozed infront of him, I went there and visited it many years ago. He lived 19 years of his life in a refugee camp, until he finally broke away and became a world renowned pHd in soil sciences. He taught at universities, and eventually came here and settled down, starting a business.

I apologize for being so zealous about all of this. It means a lot to me when I see people like Smack who spout of bullshit about Israel and Palestine when they really don't seem to know what's actually going on. I realize that most of the Academy is full of people who are well-researched, but the people who I'm attacking are the ones who don't know anything. They are the ones who don't feel like it's necessary to look other places than what's there infront of them. Many Israeli supporters hop on the bandwagon and see the Arabs (not just Palestinians) as terrorists in general. That's what I'm trying to fight.

no wonder you hate them so much. your father would make hamas proud.

[car]

Haha decided to check this one last time for the night.

Stas, this a non-flammable forum. You want to be a racist prick, be my guest. Be disappointed that my father who started off with absolutely nothing (you know, a lot less than you, a kid with rich parents) is smarter/richer/generally way more successful than you'll ever be in your life. It's people like him who are the bosses of pricks like you. Grow up, honestly. You don't even know what you're talking about.

ps: You have some great people skills. Ever consider upper management?

[stas]

And stas, if you want to be taken seriously as an adult, try not to be such a douche bag. I was tempted to completely make up bullshit just to make you angry. You're smart, but unfortunately immature.

Again, thanks everyone. I'll see if I have the energy to go at this tomorrow. I'm kinda sick of everyone picking apart every little thing in my post (like I don't know, if I say country in a metaphor). Hop off the bandwagon and stop picking apart my posts for useless shit. You think you look cool attacking the catacombs victim? Just getting your little voice in? Give me a break, this is the academy.

i dont know why im even dignifying this with a post, but if youre talking about immature, look in the mirror. in your first post you call someone pathetic, your second you call someone else immature and say theyre posting "bullshit" (and ridiculing where they get their information because theyre israeli but ALL THE TIME LEAVING OUT THAT YOUR POPS WAS FROM PALESTINE AND YOURE JUST AS BRAINWASHED). in your third, you posted incorrect facts. your fourth a highly biased site (all the while proclaiming the american media to be worthless).

then i enter and say get your facts straight before you post.

your response? a fifth post with the same wrong facts and more badmouthing of the american media, accusing people who dont agree with you of going to cnn. then a sixth which you later backtracked on when mul called it. then in the eighth you call out everyone in the academy like youre hot stuff. eventually ohman puts you in your place and then you back down to "i was just trying to get people to learn on their own." like youre some sort of catalyst for knowledge on world affairs. i could go on, but theres no point.

i stand by my post before this one. hamas' brainwashing is probably somewhere in line with what youve been taught as you were raised. thats not racist, i dont have allegiance to israel or palestine. its a subjective opinion which im allowed to have. your responses demonstrate your clear hatred of the other side and how you feel the same way about them as they do about you. youre not removed from this conflict at all and what youre typing falls well in line with what they teach their children. minus the killing part of course.

[car]

i dont know why im even dignifying this with a post, but if youre talking about immature, look in the mirror. in your first post you call someone pathetic, your second you call someone else immature and say theyre posting "bullshit" (and ridiculing where they get their information because theyre israeli but ALL THE TIME LEAVING OUT THAT YOUR POPS WAS FROM PALESTINE AND YOURE JUST AS BRAINWASHED). in your third, you posted incorrect facts. your fourth a highly biased site (all the while proclaiming the american media to be worthless).

then i enter and say get your facts straight before you post.

your response? a fifth post with the same wrong facts and more badmouthing of the american media, accusing people who dont agree with you of going to cnn. then a sixth which you later backtracked on when mul called it. then in the eighth you call out everyone in the academy like youre hot stuff. eventually incubus puts you in your place and then you back down to "i was just trying to get people to learn on their own." like your some sort of catalyst for knowledge on world affairs. i could go on, but theres no point.

Thanks for keeping track. I didn't care enough to trace this conflict, but hey glad someone did. And lol? I was trying to get people to "learn on their own"? Wrong again. I was trying to get people to learn about the Palestinian conflict and make a decision based on knowledge, not on the BIASED bullshit CNN, fox news, whatever, feeds you. As I explained for the umpteenth time, I read all news. I read it all, and I take a stance in (not exactly, but close) to the middle of them both. To be honest, I lean over to the Palestinian side just because I'll take news from the oppressed than the oppressors any day. Maybe you're different. Must I bring up the US censoring what leaves Iraq again?

[car]

Just talk like a human being, don't be such a douche.

I'm not trying to offend anyone so just take it fucking easy, partner.

I haven't been brainwashed if I look at both sides and make a reasonable judgement. Granted I'm a bit biased, that's certain, but I try to step out of my bias whenever possible. I often argue with my father over certain ideas because some things I think he says are just wrong. I have my own mind, and in my mind I think someone else living in a place far away dictating who lives where and splitting your land in half is wrong. Probably just me though.

[car]

And I'm only interested in your stance. You have no allegience to either, great. I want to know what stas thinks is just.

[tyson^cool]

I think that whole region needs a carebear countdown.

[kiken]

Not directly. And yeah, I'd rather be somewhere else. You're proud of your country at this moment in time? I sure am not, and when I am old enough to make my own decisions, I'm moving away. Not necessarily to the Middle East, but still you get the idea.

not directly, this has the same smell as the "i want money from you because your grandfather was a slave trader crap". sorry car you make some good arguements but not this one man. Everyone wants retribution for what happened along time ago.
only way to stop what is happening now is for people to stop living in the past and start living in the NOW. I'm sorry about your fathers loss truely am, but what about my grandfathers loss in having to move from prewar germany to the U.S. to escape the nazis? If youthink about hamas and hezbollah(sp) are similar to the nazis. they only want a muslim nation no jews or other rasis.
As for wanting to move feel free but remeber you arn't helping the matter by leaving just making it worse. that is the beautiful thing about this country we can always vote on a new leadershipif the majority dont like how the country has been ran.
Knock me if you want on my grammer and spelling if that is your only arguement against what i have said.

[car]

not directly, this has the same smell as the "i want money from you because your grandfather was a slave trader crap". sorry car you make some good arguements but not this one man. Everyone wants retribution for what happened along time ago.
only way to stop what is happening now is for people to stop living in the past and start living in the NOW. I'm sorry about your fathers loss truely am, but what about my grandfathers loss in having to move from prewar germany to the U.S. to escape the nazis? If youthink about hamas and hezbollah(sp) are similar to the nazis. they only want a muslim nation no jews or other rasis.
As for wanting to move feel free but remeber you arn't helping the matter by leaving just making it worse. that is the beautiful thing about this country we can always vote on a new leadershipif the majority dont like how the country has been ran.
Knock me if you want on my grammer and spelling if that is your only arguement against what i have said.

There's nothing wrong with anything you've said. I won't rip on you because you weren't a douche about it. I think the Palestinians deserve ALL of their land back, but in reality I think they should take whatever Israel is offering an leave it. I don't think they are going about this the right way. As I said, violence is wrong and they should resolve this peacefully. I'm fighting ignorance, that is all. And I don't know, I wouldn't compare them to the Nazis because they have a right to be angry at Israelis. They may be similar in that they only want one race, but I mean come on. They have a right to be angry at Israel. Every Palestinian does and don't say for a second they don't.

I tried my hardest to get you guys to put yourselves in the situations of the Palestinians. I tried to use a metaphor that no one even bothered to look at. All you guys could think about was bashing car because he's the new token catacombs punching bag. I think what's happening is not just, and the Palestinians deserve to be given back some of their land that was taken. Israelis didn't try to live peacefully with the Arabs. Right away they began to bulldoze and make land for themselves. Why do you think the Arabs got belligerent?

You guys are arguing that Israel deserves the land they have?

[car]

Reading the description, it sounds like what I've been trying to explain. Thank you, I will watch it tomorrow. I really appreciate it. My father may find it interesting too.


edit: Meh, I decided to start watching it tonight. It's exactly what I was saying. Thanks a bunch. Perhaps you guys will listen to a more credible source than just me.

"American media bullshit", huh? :rolleyes:

What do you think about it stas, ohman, or mulisha?

[Ignatz]

Oh and one last thing... If you're going to say "Israel doesn't deserve to be a country" then you better go back a lot farther (as in five or six millenia farther) than 1948 to explain yourself. That land has been in dispute between people since the dawn of human history. The Palestinians never even had political control of it. Before it was Israel, England owned it; before that, the Ottoman Empire owned it. Furthermore, Jews lived there all along, they didn't all just come from Germany in a big crowd from the concentration camps.

I started this thread not to have a referendum on Israel's existence, but to say how idiotic it was for Hezbollah to say they are ready for war when we all know they have no fucking chance against Israel. You can try to wiggle around that all you want and bash Israel, the American media, and us all you want, but it doesn't change that. You can also get as romantic as you want to about Hezbollah being some kind of freedom fighters, but there's nothing romantic, or brave, or honorable, about what they do.

[Kap`n]

military wise israel is no joke. They have withstood a lot of military agression from surrounding nations and always prevailed. Hezbollah would stand zero chance at any sort of scuffle. THe only reason i could see them thinking they have the means to hurt israel is with the backing of Syria and Iran an