Game helper interview with Doug Lombardi

[Hard`]

Scroll down if you don't wanna read about Portal and Episode 2 :D

http://pcmac.gamehelper.com/common/default.asp?App_Module=ARTICLES&ID=648

GH: Team Fortress 2 has been in development a good number of years. Why the decision to finally release with episode 2?


DOUG: HL episode 2, Portal, and TF2 were all sort of coming around the bend at the same time. Putting the three together just felt like a really compelling package as well as something we haven’t tried before.


GH: What were the reasons behind continuing development on Team Fortress 2 instead of dumping the title?

DOUG: The people here at Valve have a real love for TF. We still play TFC here A LOT. Valve tries to not just put something out because it’s time to make a new version of the game. When we started going down the TF2 route after announcing it in Atlanta at E3 in 1999, it started to get really serious. Once you start putting all the classes in with fatigues and you start heading further and further down that route we were heading for with the art style, the individuality of those classes really got zapped. Once everyone’s in fatigues it’s hard to tell a spy from a medic. The team realized the flavor of TF wasn’t working with what we had. We tried to figure out what we could do that was more exaggerated. We went with a sci-fi approach for a while. There were some cool game play ideas in that that people will see come forth, especially in the medic in the version we have now, but again the art style was wrong.

Then it came back, about a year or two ago, someone started going down this sort of Saturday morning cartoon feel. That allowed the characters to be really exaggerated. And with this we could add in some type of over the top style gameplay that is TF. After trying everything we eventually came back to a sort of style that really felt like the original.

Sometimes the team sizes changed from small to big, but there was always something cranking along in the background. We knew there was something in TF that still to this day has been done again or has been improved upon. That’s kind of where TF2 has been over the past six years or so.


GH: How was it developing the individual feel of each character?

DOUG: There’s a weird juxtaposition that the characters have to be weird but also not be too silly that it’s a bunch of pink and blue rabbits jumping around while you’re trying to finish a serious game. We wanted to make it easy to read the characters. We had this concept called a read-hierarchy that we’ve been trying to nail for a while now. Based on a silhouette, way across the map, you should be able to identify who you’re about to encounter. In TF2, because the abilities between classes are so different you can base your strategy on the silhouette. If you’re a Scout and a Heavy is coming, you better run.

Some of the character designs came up really fast. The Heavy has barely changed. The Sniper, however, has changed a ton. He’s been two or three guys within the cartoon art style.


GH: I know the medic has been overhaul, but what other changes to characters can we expect to see?

DOUG: The medic is the most dramatic overhaul, just in terms of looking at his gameplay. People who played the medic in the old days will find a lot of variance when they play the new medic. The demo guy is somewhere we can really play with physics. The engineer is another one. Some of the guys have really simple, classic roles, the Heavy being one of them and the Scout being another. There’s not really a lot with the Heavy you can change. He’s got a big bad gun, he’s slow, but he can take a lot of damage.

The medic, if you look on forums, was a well-hated character, but at the same time there were people who loved that character. There was some room there to maybe expand. Because of where technology is today, we can do a lot more interesting things with that character.


GH: What kind of maps can we expect to see? I know 2Fort makes an appearance.

DOUG: We’re doing a mix of old and new. Probably about 4 or 5 of the most remembered classics from the old days. 2Fort is one that will be in TF2, and Dustbowl is another we’ve mentioned. There will also be a handful of new maps, probably around the same number but that’s not locked down for sure. We will continue to release new and old maps after launch, just as we did with CS Source.


GH: How many players can the game support?

DOUG: Right now the plan is to go 32. We may go to 64. The big thing is not technically how many players can we support, it’s really more if someone can design a map that will be fun and not total mayhem with 64 people on the screen.

In an [MMO] it’s easy because you have a gigantic world with tons of players. Most of them are just sitting around chatting so it’s not really an issue. With TF2, no one’s going to stop to chat. The challenge is not how many players can we have on screen, but how many players we can support but still make the game fun. It’s hard to say that anyone has played more than a 10 on 10 in a multiplayer action game and still had a good time.


GH: Thanks Guys!!

Pushing for 64 players in a single server? It's tribes all over again!

[Sid6.7]

. . . and tribes would have been awesome if i got into it before everyone was godly.

[DRunkCoWBoy]

is that the same doug that plays TFC?

[dys]

Bullshit they still play TFC there a lot.

[GhOsT]

Why the hell wouldn't they? They have some of the original creators of the game there.

[dys]

Because they seem ignorant to a lot of long-standing problems within the game. They've ignored their one-time large community. Have continued to ignore the remainders. They added things that were detrimental. Ignored things that needed attention. Apparently felt the medic needed a full rehaul in his role within the game.

Would anyone that's played this game for a long time disagree?

[Pet]

like the carpenter that ignores fixups around his own home, just because they play it in their spare time doesn't mean they aren't aware of what needs doing. OMG I'm defending valve, scratch all that and stab my eyes out with a fork

[Audhumla]

The medic, if you look on forums, was a well-hated character

...what?

[N4P4LM]

...what?


dont forget...valve's market isnt only people that play organized league matches. they're making a game to make money off of all the people out there that might want to buy the game. when people actually pubbed TFC, you'd run into a lot of people that would just run around as medic infecting people...and that always lead to a lot of bitching on TF forums, but there are still plenty of people that valve is marketing to that got a kick out of it and thought it was fun.

[SithDrummer]

Would anyone that's played this game for a long time disagree?Only with this last part:

Apparently felt the medic needed a full rehaul in his role within the game.
The medic does need a re-adjustment from his current role, considering right now he's the bread-and-butter of the offense. From what I can tell, Valve really didn't want any jack-of-all-trades classes besides the soldier, so they're hoping to change the medic's uses enough to do just that.

And to relate it to N4P's statement, also remember that for everyone here that defends the medic's role as-is, there are plenty of people that see it as overpowered and too dominant as an O class (myself included).

[Randy Travis]

are you kidding? Too dominant as an O class.. what changes do you suggest then, that would make the medic less dominant?

[Scorcher]

I know I can't wait to see the scout + spy + 2 pyro offenses in TF2. It's gonna be fabulous.

[dys]

I realize it's all speculation since we haven't played it yet, so most of my assumptions, as well as everyone else's, are being based off the existing game. So to continue..

Yes, I agree the medic is the bread and butter to offense. Take his skills/abilities away and what's that leave ya? - A whole lot of shutouts.

Unless you were to halve a soldier's armor, stand an HW in one spot and make sentry guns die from a couple shotties; you need an offensive class that's fast, nimble and loaded with weapons. I do agree the spy has been beefed up quite a bit, but it doesn't appear (to me at least) that any of the other classes have been beefed up enough to make up the difference in what's being lost by a medic.

But, again, this is all speculative based off current TFC. I'm still trying to keep an open mind. We have to throw out all preconceived notions/rules that we currently go by. 9-9 may be a thing of the past.

[GhOsT]

But, again, this is all speculative based off current TFC. I'm still trying to keep an open mind. We have to throw out all preconceived notions/rules that we currently go by. 9-9 may be a thing of the past.

That's the main thing people seem to not get. Most of the people whining about this change or that change in TF2 are putting these changes in context with TFC and how it would effect TFC gameplay. We have no idea what the gameplay in TF2 is going to be.

Also, it's not like 9v9 is written in stone. Leagues started off in TFC as 8v8. Who knows what the magic number is going to be though. Perhaps in TF2 8v8 will make a comeback due to different class balances. We will have to wait and see.

[dys]

Or it could go larger, 5 O vs 5 D. Judging by the way they're making it sound, with regards to 64 person pubs, sounds like it could be of larger scale then we've seen in the past. Although the TF2 trailers didn't appear to be all that different. Who knows though. :)

[Pro]

4 medics offense = broken!

[northern lights]

I really do hope the balance of classes are different... TFC is extremely stagnant and repetitive on offense. Everyone plays medic, everyone does the same concs, the same dm'ing tactics, the same everything. Its bland as all hell!

If I want to play TFC I will load tfc, not hope the next incarnation plays the same. The more different it is from TFC, the better.

[SithDrummer]

I realize it's all speculation since we haven't played it yet, so most of my assumptions, as well as everyone else's, are being based off the existing game. So to continue..

Yes, I agree the medic is the bread and butter to offense. Take his skills/abilities away and what's that leave ya? - A whole lot of shutouts.

Unless you were to halve a soldier's armor, stand an HW in one spot and make sentry guns die from a couple shotties; you need an offensive class that's fast, nimble and loaded with weapons. I do agree the spy has been beefed up quite a bit, but it doesn't appear (to me at least) that any of the other classes have been beefed up enough to make up the difference in what's being lost by a medic.
You're right, of course, but I take heart in knowing that Valve recognized the Medic's overuse as an Offense class, because if they recognized that, they'll definitely understand that changing the medic's role and making no other large changes will leave a significant gap in the offense's power. I'm holding out for a new balance. :)

[Dr.Gizmo]

Medics are, without a doubt, overpowered. I remember going into matches thinking, "should I play to DM or should I just be a slower, more durable scout?" This kind of versatility is what made medic the definitive class for offense. The addition of (capped) bunnyhop further cemented this role. Granted, everyone is entitled to an opinion of how things ought to be, but from the statistics alone it should be clear the class is overpowered.

dys is right about Valve not being in touch with TFC. Any statement from valve (after the rise of counterstrike, at least) about TFC should be taken with a boulder of salt.

[dys]

Come on now, Giz.. After all these years you're going to break tradition and agree with me? :p New game, new world!

[CR0C0DILE]

scout should be the main offensive weapon, not useless like he is in tfc. there should not be many teams that use all medics and no scouts on offense, if there are then medic does need to be toned down or scout boosted to make it more like 50/50

[PHISH]

I take it you haven't played tfc for a bit- he's far from useless, in fact he's usually the main flag runner with other classes doing the dirty work. It already is 50/50 on some maps, but conceptually the scout is a non-dm class, why would it need to be equally balanced w/ dm'ers? If spy and pyro are improved on O, they'll basically be taking the roles of a medic.

[Corsair]

I take it you haven't played tfc for a bit- he's far from useless, in fact he's usually the main flag runner with other classes doing the dirty work. It already is 50/50 on some maps, but conceptually the scout is a non-dm class, why would it need to be equally balanced w/ dm'ers? If spy and pyro are improved on O, they'll basically be taking the roles of a medic.

And that is the real problem. The other classes which COULD be useful on offense (spy and pyro) aren't. Spies are just a "run straight at the SG flinging nades" class for most offenses (apologies to the handful of good spies out there), and pyros (nearly as fast as medics, with more armor to boot!) have a useless weapon loadout, and no mobility (napalm jumps just aren't enough, and wasting normal grens for jumping destroys what little armor advantage they had).

If the pyro could be made more dangerous and more useful for DMing D soldiers, and the spy more useful then just destroying SGs, that would go a long way.

[EspionageDB7]

A Dustbowl 64 man server LOL!

[Hard`]

A Dustbowl 64 man server LOL!

It's boring on 32 players pubs, think about 64.

but id still give it a try :D

[schwaBAM]

I still don't get why people have this huge hatred for Valve, and still continue to purchase their games and play them. If they dont play them, they start threads or reply on forums and talk about when they played them and how much they hated each game.

If you hate the community, the devs and the game.. why the are you here?

The only bone I have to pick with Valve is the failure to resolve the most retarded exploit in TFC: The nail grenade exploit. Every sorry-ass-cant-aim-for-shit-but-can-do-nail-exploits-on-2fort-every-run soldier uses this and thinks they are the cats pajamas day in and day out because they perfected tossing a nail grenade under the battlements or in the 2fort spiral.

[bayz]

i think corsair is right on. it's not that the medic is overpowered (which it isn't), it's that the other classes, save for the scout, are almost worthless on offense. if you made medics less powerful, every match would be 0-0 ties. instead of the medics being nerfed, the other classes need to be made more effective...

[|2on]

you know what other bug would be nice to fix... since it's been plaguing tfc for years... the gates on dustbowl being succeptable to explosions... when i'm trying to pub on a 32 man dustbowl server (which is actually quite often lately for some reason) and i'm down there waiting to get launched and a mirv flies in 3 seconds before the gate rises... so fucking annoying...


actually is that a bug? or is it like that on purpose?

[CR0C0DILE]

Well scout used to be more effective before bunnyhopping, and before they capped the conc speed of it. back in version 1.1 or whatever it was scouts could easily conc battlements to battlements on 2 fort. Since then the scout's advantage was taken away mostly. Partly due to the conc speed being changed and partly due to bunnyhopping allowing other classes to move faster. PEople learning conc aim etc. There are multiple reasons why. I actually played nothing but scout for my first year of TFC and usually got the highest personal score every round. but I gave it up because it became virtually useless. It looks like valve's intention is to make scout the flag runner in TF2 and Ims ure at first he will be the most effective at it. We don't know what changes will happen over the years though that affect that yet. There are bound to be new exploits in the game that send valve's class balance out of kilter.

[PHISH]

and yet people adapted to the new concs and improved their movement making it once again easy to conc battlement to battlement as scout, and the class also has been brought back to being a key to the offense.

[dys]

I still say a female character with boob-shooting rockets and a strong throw move is all we need.

[TriaD]

Meh, Doug Lombardi is a big fatass PR man that thinks everything will be awsome whilst he shit all over the TF community and does what he wants and ignores everyone else.

[maizy]

fuck the tf2 people. We have been supporting the fucking game for almost 6 years now and not one goddamn person from them has come over and said hello. Bunch of self-righteous cocksuckers if you ask me. They could have stopped by and said "hey, since you guys have 2,000+ committed members, mind giving us some advice on what tf2 should be like. Nope. They didn't worry about it until the FF guys got fed up of waiting and decided to make their own version. I hope the makers of TF2 get herpes of the eyelids.


***btw, i know this is non-flammable, but I am going to use my admin abuse right***

[GhOsT]

fuck the tf2 people. We have been supporting the fucking game for almost 6 years now and not one goddamn person from them has come over and said hello. Bunch of self-righteous cocksuckers if you ask me. They could have stopped by and said "hey, since you guys have 2,000+ committed members, mind giving us some advice on what tf2 should be like. Nope. They didn't worry about it until the FF guys got fed up of waiting and decided to make their own version. I hope the makers of TF2 get herpes of the eyelids.


***btw, i know this is non-flammable, but I am going to use my admin abuse right***
If they asked this community what they wanted TF2 to be like they would've said TFC with better graphics and maybe grenades with less of a blast radius.

TFC survived and became popular just fine without help from the QWTF diehards. I'll be willing to bet TF2 will do just fine without people like you.

It's simple. If you don't like TF2 play FF or stick with TFC. Your whining on a forum (that you said the tf2 people don't frequent) isn't going to change a thing.

[4est]

I hope the makers of TF2 get herpes of the eyelids.

That hurts like hell and infects the eyeball too. Nothing like having white blood cells floating around in your eye all while enjoying the feeling of an eye socket of sand. How do I know this? My X had a fever blister AND KISSED MY FUCKING EYE!

[TriaD]

If they asked this community what they wanted TF2 to be like they would've said TFC with better graphics and maybe grenades with less of a blast radius.

TFC survived and became popular just fine without help from the QWTF diehards. I'll be willing to bet TF2 will do just fine without people like you.

It's simple. If you don't like TF2 play FF or stick with TFC. Your whining on a forum (that you said the tf2 people don't frequent) isn't going to change a thing.


Valve would have received hundreds of suggestions, not just two, but they never tried. And it seems you somewhat agree that valve has no loyalty to its customers. How do you feel about that? I know I don't feel too great, a company that doesn't listen to its customers won't have many in the long run.

[bad]

i dont think the medic is overpowered at all, i just think grenade-damage-ratios and grenade-power are way to strong and the ability to infect all day is retarded but if you had to charge ur medkit or have medkit-ammo in some way it would definately cut back on all the lameness and balance the whole entire game ALOT and everything els pretty much works out becuase theres always a way to combat most all other classes (maybe except hw he need to have 100h - 250a or something... maybe just less ammo or decrease the minigun's power 10-15% ( and that % if probably still not enough)



hmmm how about meds can infect as much as possible but eventually if u keep infecting a certain person(or players) they would become immune....that would rape face

[IceCreamMan]

i dont think the medic is overpowered at all, i just think grenade-damage-ratios and grenade-power are way to strong and the ability to infect all day is retarded but if you had to charge ur medkit or have medkit-ammo in some way it would definately cut back on all the lameness and balance the whole entire game ALOT and everything els pretty much works out becuase theres always a way to combat most all other classes (maybe except hw he need to have 100h - 250a or something... maybe just less ammo or decrease the minigun's power 10-15% ( and that % if probably still not enough)



hmmm how about meds can infect as much as possible but eventually if u keep infecting a certain person(or players) they would become immune....that would rape face

Hwguy is already weaker then he used to be. Some maps hw rapes but other maps like Redgiant and Trench the hws are somewhat on the weak side.


I think a way to imrpove the game would be to give scouts more concs after respawn.


I think the defense in tfc is pretty solid and instead of weakening the defense the offense should be strengthended more.

[AKA-KK]

just give the pyro concs...and the scout unlimited concs and the spy invisibility keep med the same=win