I met God

[PowerCow5000]

I wrote this a few months ago, figured somebody might have something interesting to say, feel free to move it to the cesspool if you think it would be more fun:

So I met God once, and while I was in the shower, I described the experience to the pretty girls I'm going to meet later tonight. I liked my rendition, so let's see if I can recreate the shower moment on paper. Or, whatever you call this blank sheet of digital space.

So I met God. Pretty bold statement I guess. Either bold or completely insane. I'm pretty much resigned to being at least one or the other, if not both. Anyways, when I met God it was pretty amazing, and to be honest, I don't think I have all the words necessary to communicate the gravity of the experience. I'd like to say it was beautiful, but that doesn't quite encompass the enormity of meeting God.

As with any statement like this, it was rooted in illicit drugs. Meeting God is one of the reasons I love my psychedelics, and probably will until the day I die. I always had desires for spirituality, but with the discovery of pot, I realized my own insignificance in the universe and feeling this insignificance pretty much convinced me God didn't exist. By insignficance, I mean when I smoked pot it gave me a sense of the incredible size of the universe and made me realize how little I was, and how short my lifespan was. So for a stretch of about 3 years I was pretty much an atheist. I told people I was agnostic, because I didn't want to argue, but inside, I believed there was no God.

That all changed one fine night in spring. Me and my roommate had decided to trip that night. We took some mushrooms. I took about 4 grams initially. I think he didn't quite finish his bag and asked me to do it for him. I'm not sure whether I told him to suck it up or took them gratefully, but I do know that I was tripping my balls off that night.

Now, when I trip, I can't sit still. I have to walk around or do something that involves me not sitting still. I can't watch movies, I can't play video games. I have to be talking, writing, moving, or listening to music. Usually more than one. Anyways, it was early spring, so it was still cold out. Me and my friend were going to take a romp over Manhattan, but we got as far as the edge of the parking lot. At that point we turned around and went back up to our apartment, and that's when the crazy shit started happening.

We were sitting in his room, talking, listening to music, and then I started going loopy. He would try and have a conversation with me, and I would occasionally interject with off-the-wall existential shit that had nothing to do with what he was saying. I would randomly interrupt with phrases like, "I don't like the confines of space!" or "...but what happens when we die?!" or "The body is an expression of the mind."

He would try and calm me, he kept saying "Just be." He was right. We made our way to the hall and I got stuck on a mirror there for a second. We ended up just standing in the hall talking and I remember dropping my water bottle. I kept it open even though I wasn't thirsty and when I dropped it I watched the water flow onto the floor. Then I picked it up and I was concerned about cleaning it up. I didn't really want to though, and my roommate gave me this look that you would give a retarded puppy. Like, "I want to yell at you, but I don't think it would do any good."

I asked him if we should clean it up and he thought about it and said, "Naw, it's not a big deal. It's just water. Leave it." I thought he was trying to use reverse psychology on me for a second and I felt really bad, but then I was like, fuck it. He doesn't care, and neither do I. A couple seconds later I thought gravity had turned sideways and dropped my water bottle again because I wanted to see it bounce off the wall. No such luck.

At this point the roomie laid down on the ground and said, "Whoa, I've never seen the hall from this perspective, you should check it out, it's awesome." I was kinda worried, because earlier that night I thought he might have been hitting on me, and now he was moving in for the kill, so I sat with my head near his, but my feet in the opposite direction, so that together we spanned about 13 feet (we am tall). Anyways, when I laid down, I felt the craziest thing happen. It felt like I was melting into the wall and the floor. It felt like we were made of the same thing, like some big moving liquid. It was strange, but so comforting. I felt like I could lay there forever. And then it happened: I closed my eyes.

When I say I met God, or I saw God, it doesn't quite measure up to whatever way it was that I experienced God that night. I closed my eyes for about a half a second, and in that half second I had the most intensely pleasurable feeling of my life. Like a thousand orgasms hitting you like an atom bomb. As soon as I closed my eyes my back arched and some of the air was squeezed out of my lungs. I gasped and opened my eyes. The half second was too much, but for somebody like me, never enough. I didn't know what it was at first, I just thought it was awesome. I did a breathing exercise to calm myself and prepared to close my eyes again. That time I held em for about 3 seconds. Same thing, only even more vivid. I saw colors and shapes swirling behind my eyelids and that same incredible orgasm ran through my entire body.

When I opened my eyes I tried to make sense of what I had seen while I prepared myself to close my eyes again. I felt like I had seen myself flowing in and out of the wall and floor around me, but at the same time, I saw everything. I closed my eyes again, for about 10 seconds. Again, with the orgasm, but this time I actually tried to make sense of what was happening. I didn't just see what was behind my eyelids, but I looked. I saw a shape made out of many colors moving in and out of each other. It looked like a tree, or a river. A main trunk with many branches, and when I saw it, I felt like I was one with everything, not just the floor and the wall, but the entire universe.

Nirvana would probably be the easiest way to describe the feeling. From my experience, if anybody described God correctly, it was the Buddhists. I remember in Catholic school, one of my religion teachers said that heaven is when you die, and you "gaze upon the face of God for eternity." I was like, "That's heaven? Sounds kinda boring." Really, though, heaven is the same as Nirvana. Oneness with the universe. So is God. To be in Nirvana, or heaven, is to become God, or at least, become a part of It. Of course, to experience God as everything, is to realize that everything is God. We don't experience things the way God does, but if God is everything, then so are we.

When I realized this it was the single most liberating experience of my life. It's why I'm not afraid of death. It's why I don't need faith, because I have experience. It was also profoundly depressing in some ways. We always hear people appealing to God to come and save them, but he doesn't do that. Never has, never will. The Bible is fiction. God didn't come down from the sky with a big fucking hand and knock over the walls of Jericho. God didn't destroy Sodom and Gemorrah. Maybe God can make his presence felt, but he certainly doesn't manifest himself in a physical form so that he can change the world and waiting around for him to do so never got anybody anywhere.

Haha, memoirs of a crazy man. You might be able to commit me just for these few pages, but even if that were to happen, I know I can always find solace in death. Which is why I want to make my life worthwhile. I still haven't determined what is worthwhile though. I've found my peace. I've found a way to be happy no matter what. All I have to do is remember what it's like to die. Should I spend my life, making the lives of people who don't know better? Or should I be selfish, and take what I can while I have the opportunity? I'd say I already know what I want to do. I want to help people. "We all want to change the world." It's just so hard to believe that you can when you're surrounded by so many people who seem so insignificant. People who seem resigned to a fate far worse than death, which is an unhappy life.

Maybe that's what I should do. Try to make people happy. The problem is that people get jealous. "You are only allowed to make me happy." Why were you making her happy instead of me? When people present me with this question in all of it's myriad forms I feel so guilty. Why wasn't I making that person happy? When I think about that I come to the conclusion that people need to make themselves happy. It's a good answer, but it gives me room to be lazy in making other people happy.

For having everything figured out, I sure do have a lot of figuring left to do.

[agi|e]

Once you have this experience your life changes forever. But after you have it there are other ways besides drugs to cultivate more expansive states of consciousness. I had a similar experience when I was 16 (not drug induced) and like you I know that we are not the physical body and that we are immortal spiritual beings. It's got nothing to do with traditional religions. In fact most religions are anti-spiritual. The key to true spiritual development is the daily practice of deep meditation and I highly recommend the book Autobiography of a Yogi to all sincere truth seekers out there. Also I found the technique of TM to be a useful starting point although I don't necessarily endorse their organization.

You can't descibe "God" with words because "God" is the ALL INFINITE consciousness which encompasses and surpasses all limitations and mental concepts. You got a taste of the infinite and your (and everyone else's) true nature. There is no real separation. We are all one with God. But the veil of ignorance and personality has made us forget who we really are. Stilling the restless mind in meditation gives us back what we have lost.

Since we are all this there is no arrogance or superiority involved in the experience. We all have access to our true nature and it's just a matter of accepting who we are and learning to train and subdue our restless minds which are like a dirty pair of glasses which need to be cleaned before we can enjoy a beautiful sunrise.

[RogueCheddar]

I actually understand the "oneness" you described and how its onset hits you, but are you sure it's fitting to call it God (even in the untraditional sense)? I would be wary of defining a new experience with archaic ideas.

[distort]

I liked it.

[puppychow]

get off the drugs son.

[Outflow]

You're not alone there PowerCow... shrooms is the one drug in the Earth that will truly get you as close to God as is humanly possible. Think about it... shrooms come from the lowest form of matter on the planet (arguably); cow shit. From cow shit you get an experience that cannot be described by mere words. I hope no one posts in this thread who hasn't done shrooms and criticizes you for you experience. They would really have no clue as to what they are talking about. Good for you man.

[Zogo]

If you wanna hang out youve got to take her out; cocaine.
If you wanna get down, down on the ground; cocaine.
She dont lie, she dont lie, she dont lie; cocaine.

[SenSai]

psychadellic effects = god? get off that shit.

[q]

there are other ways besides drugs to cultivate more expansive states of consciousness.

yes

[AntioK]

Mushrooms are a lot of fun

I wouldn't bring God into it.

[word]

ive wondered about psychadellics and spiritualism. i have never done any, but know people who have. One fellow did not nearly have that pleasurable of an experience. He was running around for most of the night trying to avoid being swallowed by the fiery fissures in the ground.

I know many religions "holy" men or shamans, typically use drugs for visions from god. Most shroom users I have met has some belief of one-ness or reaching a cosmic switchboard, etc. I doubt most put alot of credence in meeting god, since there have been people on trips who believe they can fly, which obviously they cannot.

[PowerCow5000]

haha. I love you people who immediately decry my experience because I was under drugs.

1. Just because I was under the influence of an illegal (or even legal) substance has nothing to do with whether or not you could experience something. Why would God or nirvana or oneness need you to be sober to experience something?

2. I'm not saying that what I experienced was actually God. That's simply how I interpreted it, and I'm well aware of the fact that what I experienced could be hallucination. I'm not trying to prove anything, if you don't believe me then I hope you at least found the story entertaining for your own sake.

3. I've experienced many hallucinations and taken enough psychedelics to know that my trips are relatively mild compared to most. I almost never have occasions where I run off without my consciousness under the influence of other drugs, and even when I've taken just as many intoxicants as everyone around me, I tend to be the trip-sitter/soberest person/babysitter/party crasher who tells people not to jump off of rooftops.

4. I also believe that spirituality can be obtained through 'natural' ways, but I believe that more people that have tried that route have ended up more confused. I look at worshiping jesus, or even God (oneness, nirvana, whatever you call it) as idolatry, personally. I don't go up to christians and tell them that what they experience is any less valid than mine, even if I do believe they're the ones hallucinating. I have developed a spiritual life beyond drugs, but this was my first step in that direction. This event brought me a little closure, if not more questions, but it's just one of myriad ways to develop one's own sense of the infinite.

5. No, I do not believe that drugs will make you experience sprituality. If you had read what I had said, I was pretty much an atheist at that point and what happened to me seemed pretty random, as I had tripped several times before this and never experienced anything similar to it.

[agi|e]

There is a guy named Ram Dass who was a teacher I think back in the 60's. He was the guy with Timothy Leary who experimented with LSD. His Indian spiritual teacher told him that the drug enables one to visit with "God" but when the drug wears off you have to come back to the ordinary world. Drugs can give you a glimpse of that expanded state of consciousness which is our true nature. But to actually maintain those states while not on drugs requires spiritual practices such as daily deep meditation and introspection. It also takes a commitment to grow beyond the tiny ego self image that we have been programmed to accept and to realize we are all equal and connected from a spiritual standpoint. The sense of separateness or ego is the crust of dirt on our glasses that obscures our vision so it takes discipline and maturity to clean off all these old "programs" that we have learned in our lifetimes. The state of "oneness" or "bliss" is our natural state so true spiritual practice involves reclaiming or remembering who we really are.

[Aic]

Best Book Ever. (http://www.amazon.com/Be-Here-Now-Ram-Dass/dp/0517543052/sr=8-1/qid=1160606210/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2980787-5586505?ie=UTF8)

[Zogo]

Why would God or nirvana or oneness need you to be sober to experience something?

he wouldn't..but what's his reasoning?

[Cire]

I've had an incredibly similiar experience PowerCow, and the way I look at life has drastically changed. I also had that few second whole body orgasm while my mind drifted through vibrant colors and immense thoughts, I felt as I experienced "God" as well.

[PowerCow5000]

He doesn't have a reason for it. It/He just is, and I was just able to experience It/He directly. God didn't choose to reveal himself to me in my opinion, to be honest to me it was more like stumbling over a rock or some shit. Random coincidence. Certainly not intentional, and certainly drug-induced, but that's not to say it wasn't genuine. (even if only to me)

[beano]

I for one do not believe in a God, but I read all of your post powercow. It was interesting nonetheless, but I do not think that psychadelic drugs and visions of God have any connection. And I know that is how you interpretted it but why? Because it felt good or what? I am just curious.

[FireWall]

"God" has nothing to do with it, PowerCow5000. With the help of a strong psychedelic, you succeeded in doing nothing more than confusing yourself. Sadly, your story reminds me of the ramblings of a schizophrenic who has yet to come to terms with his or her disease. Your entire perception of reality is based on electrochemical interactions; when you toy with those interactions by introducing potent foreign substances into your body, there is a good possibility that your perception of reality will totally change as a result. You are just like every other experimenter out there who has taken a dose too large for them to handle. There are profound repercussions for toying with your natural state of consciousness. Do yourself a favor and stay away from psychedelic substances. You are too weak to handle them. If a mushroom trip can reduce you to a nonsensical quasi-schizophrenic, who knows what a strong dose of 5-MeO-DMT could do to you? You might never recover.

[PowerCow5000]

Like I said, I'm usually the soberest of the fucked up. I started taking acid recently and the only hallucinations I have had are patterns on odd textures.

Beano, I believe it's certainly possible that all I had was a hallucination, but that feeling that I had is hard to express in words. The reason I wrote this was to put in words, but some things just aren't fully communicable in words. Could you describe the wind to somebody who has never felt it? You could, but it still wouldn't communicate what it actually feels like.

[RogueCheddar]

"God" has nothing to do with it, PowerCow5000. With the help of a strong psychedelic, you succeeded in doing nothing more than confusing yourself. Sadly, your story reminds me of the ramblings of a schizophrenic who has yet to come to terms with his or her disease. Your entire perception of reality is based on electrochemical interactions; when you toy with those interactions by introducing potent foreign substances into your body, there is a good possibility that your perception of reality will totally change as a result. You are just like every other experimenter out there who has taken a dose too large for them to handle. There are profound repercussions for toying with your natural state of consciousness. Do yourself a favor and stay away from psychedelic substances. You are too weak to handle them. If a mushroom trip can reduce you to a nonsensical quasi-schizophrenic, who knows what a strong dose of 5-MeO-DMT could do to you? You might never recover.
I think that's a little over-critical. His views are not any more crazy and ill-founded than most religious people. When we experience new things we instinctly rationalize them, and since the dawn of time what we don't really understand is attributed to God -- the Lord of the Gaps. It's understandable that previously inconceivable sensations are attributed to an inconceivable being and is not necessarily the result of an addled mind.

[FireWall]

Like I said, I'm usually the soberest of the fucked up. I started taking acid recently and the only hallucinations I have had are patterns on odd textures.

That is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that you consumed a large dose of psychoactive tryptamines that overwhelmed you, and now you are struggling to come to terms with what happened. There is no need to bring ridiculous notions of spirituality into the matter. Perhaps your explanation makes perfect sense to you, but it is ridiculous. It is comparable to the delusions of schizophrenics who are not under treatment for their disease. Do you realize that there is evidence that indicates that the consumption of psychoactive substances may trigger the onset of schizophrenia in predisposed individuals? Do not get me wrong: I am not trying to suggest that you have any sort of mental disease. But what you need to realize is that psychoactive drugs do make people go completely fucking insane. If you are too weak to handle them, then please leave them alone for your own good.

His views are not any more crazy and ill-founded than most religious people.

That is extraordinarily debatable. I would argue that there is a big difference between concepts of spirituality that are rooted in culture and those that are rooted in psychoactive drugs. The latter are far easier to debunk.

When we experience new things we instinctly rationalize them, and since the dawn of time what we don't really understand is attributed to God -- the Lord of the Gaps. It's understandable that previously inconceivable sensations are attributed to an inconceivable being and is not necessarily the result of an addled mind.

It is understandable, but that does not make it correct. I am simply letting him know that he is going down the wrong path. Everything that he experienced is easily attributable to material circumstances. I think that the value in psychoactive experiences is that they reveal how closely tied consciousness is to the various chemical interactions that occur in our bodies, and they provide a glimpse at the conceivably infinite number of states of consciousness that are achievable through the manipulation of those interactions. There is no reason to introduce childish notions of spirituality into the matter; they contaminate it.

[beano]

wow i finally agree with firewall, and i hope he doesnt flame me for it. and powercow, i understand somethings are indescribable, but why does that have to be connected with God, especially if you held an athiest's view.

[PowerCow5000]

You certainly can attribute my experience at that time to nothing but chemical interactions in the brain, but that doesn't account for other people who have felt the same thing. It doesn't account for people describing exactly similar symptoms while not under the influence of drugs.

I always believed I was crazy for having believed that this one experience was real. I mean, all my other hallucinations faded, and so did my belief in them, but not the one involving 'god'. I didn't speak about this stuff for years because I was afraid people would lock me up, but I know I'm not crazy, because I know people who are crazy. I also know people who believed what I told them about this experience, because they had felt something similar.

And if it is 'childish' to involve spirituality in it, then I will ask the ultimate child question: why?
1. What's so bad about beleiving in something we perceived as genuine and using it for the positive in our life?
2. Who's to say that drugs aren't just another way of acheiving genuine spirituality? Who's to say that playing with the switches in your brain isn't, if not the way, a way to perceive the infinite?

[post-mortem]

ya you dont have to give anyone money or throw your whole life away to believe in God. All it does is help you.

What I started to believe is that everyone is a part of God. Just like Jesus. For example, I have a bowl of jello and I take a piece of jello out, and that is jesus, the rest is still God. I believe that is what God is. God is everyone and everything and we are all a part of a whole.

[beano]

I do not see any connection post-mortem :/ but powercow. Who =, not under the influence, has experianced this sort of 'Nirvana'? If drugs produce an altered state of mind, how/why would that bring one closer to God? Wouldn't he/it want us to know he exists without taking some sort of drug and altering your state which would therefore end up in questioning the validity of the experiance.

[sai]

like whoa man...

get a job.

[Zogo]

He doesn't have a reason for it.

can you talk to him?

my scientific side is saying that all the "god chemicals" in your brain exploded orgasmically since you never used them before (being an atheist.)

For example, I have a bowl of jello and I take a piece of jello out, and that is jesus, the rest is still God. I believe that is what God is.

and bill cosby is a prophet right?

[FireWall]

You certainly can attribute my experience at that time to nothing but chemical interactions in the brain, but that doesn't account for other people who have felt the same thing. It doesn't account for people describing exactly similar symptoms while not under the influence of drugs.

The various receptors that psychotropic chemicals interact with are affected by a legion of endogenous compounds as well. Under various circumstances (possibly in conjunction with otherwise subtle hereditary abnormalities and inconspicuous environmental impulses), it is definitely possible for hallucinations to occur without the aid of potent exogenous triggers. I mean, if sufferers of dementia are able to hallucinate on a regular basis without significant external intervention, there is no reason to believe that a gray area does not exist too. It is certainly a far more plausible explanation than spiritual encounters with a deity.

I always believed I was crazy for having believed that this one experience was real. I mean, all my other hallucinations faded, and so did my belief in them, but not the one involving 'god'. I didn't speak about this stuff for years because I was afraid people would lock me up, but I know I'm not crazy, because I know people who are crazy. I also know people who believed what I told them about this experience, because they had felt something similar.

It is possible for a billion people to believe the same untruth. To paraphrase a famous apothegm, majority does not make right. In general, people are easily fooled into believing nonsense (particularly if they are relatively naive). The good residents of Salem, Massachusetts, e.g., were convinced that the devil had infected a large portion of their neighbors, when in reality, there is evidence that they were being heavily dosed with tryptamines through contaminated rye bread. There is a pattern in the history of allegedly supernatural occurrences: they become debunked. And for good reason: they are relics from a barbaric period in the history of thought that humans are still struggling to detach themselves from.

And if it is 'childish' to involve spirituality in it, then I will ask the ultimate child question: why?

The belief that something exists when there is no objective evidence that it does is extraordinarily reminiscent of the behavior of children.

1. What's so bad about beleiving in something we perceived as genuine and using it for the positive in our life?

Believe in whatever you want. I am simply letting you know that there is no good reason to attribute anything that happened to you to supernatural causes.

2. Who's to say that drugs aren't just another way of acheiving genuine spirituality? Who's to say that playing with the switches in your brain isn't, if not the way, a way to perceive the infinite?

There is absolutely no evidence that any of that is true. I prefer to stay within the confines of reality.

[PowerCow5000]

No evidence you have experienced, but what I experienced was my evidence. It's not real to you, because you didn't feel what I felt.

[FireWall]

No evidence you have experienced, but what I experienced was my evidence. It's not real to you, because you didn't feel what I felt.

What you experienced subjectively was not any different than what occurred objectively. You simply experienced it in a different way. To you, it was a profound spiritual experience; it affected your psyche in a way that transcended anything that you had experienced before (welcome to the world of "entheogens"). But what you seem incapable of understanding is that what you experienced subjectively was not indicative of what was happening to your body objectively because there was no way for you to know that receptor A was being manipulated by agonist B through your senses. A translation occurred, and what you experienced was that translation.

[leg]

The belief that something exists when there is no objective evidence that it does is extraordinarily reminiscent of the behavior of children. And of scientists. They differ in the amount supporting eivdence, but neither can prove their theories or experiences to be absolutely true. Thus, powercow5000's experience is possible even though the chances of it being true may be quite small. Besides, there is no way that you or anyone can actually prove what happened to powercow5000 objectively.

[FireWall]

And of scientists.

No, because scientists--with respect to the work that they do--do not believe in anything without evidence. Positivism is irreconciable with completely unsupported claims.

They differ in the amount supporting eivdence, but neither can prove their theories or experiences to be absolutely true.

There is a prodigious difference between scientific theories and the nonsense that I have previously criticized. I addressed that difference briefly in another thread from a more general point of view.

Thus, powercow5000's experience is possible even though the chances of it being true may be quite small.

There is no evidence to support that claim.

Besides, there is no way that you or anyone can actually prove what happened to powercow5000 objectively.

You are correct, and it is interesting to note that the burden of proof does not fall on me if you disregard the explanations that I have offered. I am perfectly justified in my denial. The positive claims in question lack substantiation.

[leg]

Just because something can't be proven true, doesn't mean it's false. There is evidence to support his claim, but you, as well as others, say it's invalid. You have brought to light several reasons to support your claim, but unless you do not believe in God or some supernatural power, I don't see how you can not see this being possible.

If you don't believe in God or some supernatural power, then forget all I have said.

[beano]

a posteriori argument. < or however. without physical evidence, how can it be true? think at least from a scientific mindset.

[Zogo]

Just because something can't be proven true, doesn't mean it's false.

yes, but that really doesn't mean much.

There is evidence to support his claim, but you, as well as others, say it's invalid

where?

[SithDrummer]

a posteriori argument. < or however. without physical evidence, how can it be true? think at least from a scientific mindset.
From a scientific mindset, what you wrote should have been: without physical evidence, how can it be proven true?

[leg]

yes, but that really doesn't mean much. Yeah, I'm not saying it is true. I'm just suggesting that the possibility exist.

Subjective experience is evidence. Hell, everything in the past is subjective. Some things can be said to be true more than others, but all knowledge and events in the past are recorded subjectively.

[beano]

how can something that cannot be proven true, be true?

[[GoW]HK]

the fact that you abuse drugs makes your claim void. you are only recieving a clouded vision of something that could be achieved through a purer form like meditation or some other form of introspection.

[leg]

how can something that cannot be proven true, be true? Because we do not have the knowledge or skills to prove it true yet. It's a common fallacy. http://www.iep.utm.edu/f/fallacy.htm#Appeal%20to%20Ignorance

[PowerCow5000]

You people are ridiculous with this anti-drug nonsense. Drugs do alter perception, but altered perception does not necessarily equal clouded vision.

I'm glad leg is here, he's much more eloquent than me.

[Zogo]

Yeah, I'm not saying it is true. I'm just suggesting that the possibility exist.

I still haven't seen anything compelling.

I can find some bum on the street claiming to be god..are you going to defend him?

Subjective experience is evidence. Hell, everything in the past is subjective. Some things can be said to be true more than others, but all knowledge and events in the past are recorded subjectively.

in the realm of faith/religion yes...but everything?

[leg]

I've never said that powercow was right in his assessment of his experience. I'm only saying that the possibility exists. I guess it probably is the amount of possibility that we disagree on.

in the realm of faith/religion yes...but everything? For most things I think so. These "things" do differ in their validity, but since we can not go back in time, we are not able to see what has objectively happen.

[Zogo]

I've never said that powercow was right in his assessment of his experience. I'm only saying that the possibility exists. I guess it probably is the amount of possibility that we disagree on.

is there anything that you think is impossible?

For most things I think so. These "things" do differ in their validity, but since we can not go back in time, we are not able to see what has objectively happen.

well there are some things that we don't have to go back in time for. I can objectively state many facts concering the world today that are not subjective.

[FireWall]

There is evidence to support his claim, but you, as well as others, say it's invalid.

It lacks validity because it lacks objectivity. The only evidence that he has presented to support his claim are subjective sensations that could be interpreted in infinite ways. Unless those subjective sensations are provided with an objective foundation, then there might as well be no evidence at all; evidence is meaningless if it is open to boundless interpretation.

From a scientific mindset, what you wrote should have been: without physical evidence, how can it be proven true?

Actually, it is a common misunderstanding that the scientific method provides for the possibility of proof. Outside of mathematics, which is not an experimental science, the phrase "scientific proof" is a misnomer (notice that prior to now, I have not used the word proof). The scientific method only provides for the possibility of disproof (an experiment is a test to disprove a hypothesis). The reason is because it is not possible to draw infinite conclusions from a finite amount of experimental data. I touched on this matter briefly in another thread.

Yeah, I'm not saying it is true. I'm just suggesting that the possibility exist.

The possibility only exists that what he says is true if what he says is true. Otherwise, the possibility that what he says is true is precisely zero.

Subjective experience is evidence.

See above.

Hell, everything in the past is subjective.

Yes, but only with regard to relativity (i.e., a relationship with another entity). It is not an intrinsic property.

Some things can be said to be true more than others

I am not even going to touch that claim. That kind of point brings into question the essence of truth, which is beyond the scope of the present discussion and my knowledge of philosophy. Just keep in mind that it is incredibly debatable.

[Pr0sth3tic]

I hope you break your head open and become a vegetable

[leg]

is there anything that you think is impossible? Yeah, there are things that I believe are impossible to do by today's standards, but I think it would be foolish to say that those things would still be impossible to do in the future.

[AntioK]

I do not see any connection post-mortem :/ but powercow. Who =, not under the influence, has experianced this sort of 'Nirvana'? If drugs produce an altered state of mind, how/why would that bring one closer to God? Wouldn't he/it want us to know he exists without taking some sort of drug and altering your state which would therefore end up in questioning the validity of the experiance.


I have, it was before i had ever taken any drugs, i was 18, and it was a very incredible experience.

I have ate mushrooms multiple times since this incident, and i love them, and i understand why he might feel like he saw God or what have you, and for all i know maybe he did, The most i've ever eaten in one sitting is 2.5/8ths and while i could see the hair grow on my arms, God didn't make an encore appearance for me.

You do feel like you have a new appreciation for life after an intense trip, ill agree with that.

[Zogo]

Yeah, there are things that I believe are impossible to do by today's standards, but I think it would be foolish to say that those things would still be impossible to do in the future.

why? couldn't they be possible elsewhere in the universe?

[leg]

Yeah you are right, but if I restrict these "things" to only this planet and this time peroid one could invision several things to be impossible.

[Zogo]

Yeah you are right, but if I restrict these "things" to only this planet and this time peroid one could invision several things to be impossible.

are you restricting god to this planet?

[leg]

I guess I should of been more clear. I was trying to refer to the abilities of humans without the help or God or a supernatural power. I don't believe things to be 100% impossible, but 99% is close enough.

[sc`]

In no condescending, or anything you want to think of, way, just a pondering question, how old are you cow?

[PowerCow5000]

I'm 20.

I have taken enough drugs to know this was much more intense than the average euphoria that is associated with shrooms. I've never taken the more potent things like crack or heroin, so I can't give those as a comparison.

[JohnnyBSam]

I can find some bum on the street claiming to be god..are you going to defend him?

Seems like enough proof against powercow500 right here.

Although it doesnt really matter. What goes on inside everyones mind is unique. For that bum he is god, and for powercow500 he did have a moment with god... Even though it just sounds like he had some amazing closed eye visuals and an intense trip.

Its pretty proven that psychedelics and especially psilocybin can produce mystical experiences, but its my opinion that this isnt reality. There was a recent experiment where scientists stimulated a certain region of the brain, and the result was that the subject would feel a haunting human presence behind them. http://brainethics.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/inducing-a-shadow-in-the-mind/

does this mean that there was really someone behind the patient. nope. The patient could argue that the brain stimulation was really revealing something that people ordinarly cant see, but this doesnt stand up to scrutiny. the same thing goes for psychedelics. We need a basis to analyze these phenomena, and the basis is normal brain function.

[odin]

psychedelics are an intensely personal experience. powercow did see God. he saw his version of God and he believes it, so why is it not God. If god/heaven is what any religion says it is, beings become essentially formless after death(although they appear to have forms), hence not real by modern standards, therefore god and heaven and/or the appearance of those are simply variables dependent on the person who experiences them.

[Zogo]

psychedelics are an intensely personal experience. powercow did see God. he saw his version of God and he believes it, so why is it not God. If god/heaven is what any religion says it is, beings become essentially formless after death(although they appear to have forms), hence not real by modern standards, therefore god and heaven and/or the appearance of those are simply variables dependent on the person who experiences them.

supposedly god the father and holy spirit will remain invisible.

people on LSD see everything though..heh.

[danger]

Wow thats really great that you experienced what most of us call self-consciousness. Some of us figure this out when we are kids, others, it takes a hallucinogenic. Best of luck with your newfound existence.

Choices always were a problem for you.
What you need is someone strong to guide you.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow,
What you need is someone strong to use you..

[PowerCow5000]

supposedly god the father and holy spirit will remain invisible.

people on LSD see everything though..heh.


Ummm... yeah. God has nothing to do with christianity, at least not the one I experienced.

[JohnnyBSam]

Ummm... yeah. God has nothing to do with christianity, at least not the one I experienced.

lol

[Zogo]

Ummm... yeah. God has nothing to do with christianity, at least not the one I experienced.

well you did capitalize it. has this one revealed himself to anyone else or are you the first?

[PowerCow5000]

From the people I've talked to my experience isn't that unique. Read some of the other posts. Christianity has nothing to do with religion in my opinion. The bible is a lineage. Christianity isn't about God, it's about civilization. I can't prove that Christianity isn't any truer than what I experienced, but I certainly don't believe in it.

[leg]

Ummm... yeah. God has nothing to do with christianity, at least not the one I experienced. I find it hard to believe that you were able to conclude this from your 10-20 second experience with God.

[Zogo]

Christianity isn't about God, it's about civilization.

how do you figure that?

[Breaker]

On my 18th birthday, I felt very blessed because that was the day I found out for sure that God and Satan exist. Up until my 18th, I was very existential and unstable, not knowing what to base my decisions on. I didn't see an apparition or anything on my 18th, I just knew God was real and Satan was real, its not a feeling that can be described by vocal cords. After I knew God was real, I actually became more frustrated and tried harder to base my decisions on the fact that there was God. This caused me even more anxiety and fiendish thinking than before I knew about God. It was like living in the movie Saw. When my twin bro (or anyone I loved) acted strange, I thought that for some reason it was something I did wrong before, and God was punishing me and my family. It was the worst year of my life. After a while I tried desperately to chill out but thought being chill was illogical, evil, wrong, and a waste of life. Most of my friends are hustlers. I started taking more substances (xanax, extacy, painkillers, shrooms - (but never crack/meth/heorine)) One day my good friend gave me some big ass shrooms. -- We chewed up about 3 grmz a piece of them. We started tripping, cheezing, etc... went to a friends house to laugh at everything we'd wait for cut calls and just trip. After the shrumz were in full swing, I could feel an incomprehensible sense of peace, happines, mostly peace. I was starting to joke with my friend and he was in a state of awe, I have never been relaxed and real enough to talk to people with realness before. Ever since that day he was no longer an athiest. It was the best I've ever felt in my life, I wasn't even paying attention to the shrooms. God and I were finally able to joke with each other about all the stupid shit I used to think was real. I was even talking and breathing differently. My voice had a pleasant boast and my heart was beating at a normal pace. All my anxiety went away because I realized that nobody cares whats wrong with you, if they do then they are crazy. I went to take a piss and saw Jesus figure forming on the bathroom door, then he mutated into a jesus with demon horns and an evil smile etc... I thought it was tight. Somehow I learned about Jesus' sacrifice. God allowed his own son to sacrifice his life for all people's sins, they both wanted to do it for our benifit. The only way to the Father is through the Son, you have to grow the balls to trust in God to take care of you, Jesus died for you, God allowed it, so if you believe in them then all your anxieties are pointless as long as you have the balls to trust them. Who could be a better friend to you than someone who knows more about you than yourself?

[ffej-OD]

I'm having a hard time believing this thread is real and how inconceivably moronic the majority of you are. I hope you guys didn't vote today.

[FireWall]

I'm having a hard time believing this thread is real and how inconceivably moronic the majority of you are. I hope you guys didn't vote today.

Elaborate, oh wise one.

[public_slots_free.mL]

I am with firewall on this one. Also, anything you experience while under the influence of anything should be considered irrational. Drugs can cause you to be scared that the walls are closing in and people are coming for you but when you take drugs and it makes you feel the complete opposite, it isn't a bad trip but it is an experience with God (in your mind at least).

I think a good example of the mind and the use of drugs is like riding a motorcylce. The bike is going so fast, that if you hit a small rock on the road you can feel your bike shake. Pot is the pebbles that shake your bike and the drugs you took were a boulder and you got thrown clear off.

EDIT: Also, now that i have read it all and responded, i am with the previous poster as well and agree this thread is completely rediculous.

[ffej-OD]

Elaborate, oh wise one.

Don't worry you're safe from my derogatory comments. I know you'll be able to sleep soundly tonight knowing this. ;)

[public_slots_free.mL]

Elaborate, oh wise one.

I think i met God while i was high pretty much sums up his entire post. It also sums up why no one should've even replied to this thread. I mean look at the guy from half baked, he meets jerry garcia while hes high.

[Zogo]

Who could be a better friend to you than someone who knows more about you than yourself?

you sound like ted haggard.

[Mexi]

haha. I love you people who immediately decry my experience because I was under drugs.

1. Just because I was under the influence of an illegal (or even legal) substance has nothing to do with whether or not you could experience something. Why would God or nirvana or oneness need you to be sober to experience something?


And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit.


There's a difference between a high from substances and a high from God. Learn it, love it.

[Breaker]

I agree with you mexi. I've taken lots of things but only shrooms give me any religious experiences, must be because it is natural and some say its the manna reffered to in the Bible, I'm not sure about that though. Extacy has given people revelations about certain things but it also melts your brain like ice cream.

[PowerCow5000]

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit.


There's a difference between a high from substances and a high from God. Learn it, love it.

Like I said, drugs are not a direct path to "God" it happened to be a coincidence that I experienced "God" while I was tripping. I suppose you people are justified in criticizing my experience because Im a druggie, because I do the same thing to most Christians, but I at least have the common sense to not presume to know things intimately with which I have no experience. If you havent done any drugs then you should at least approach this situation with an open, if skeptic, mind.

If you have done drugs, then I still dont blame you for your skepticism, but that doesnt mean I agree with you.

And god dammit my apostrophe key isnt working

[Zogo]

If you have done drugs, then I still dont blame you for your skepticism, but that doesnt mean I agree with you.

you'll only agree with us if we've taken drugs?

[Mexi]

Like I said, drugs are not a direct path to "God" it happened to be a coincidence that I experienced "God" while I was tripping. I suppose you people are justified in criticizing my experience because Im a druggie, because I do the same thing to most Christians, but I at least have the common sense to not presume to know things intimately with which I have no experience. If you havent done any drugs then you should at least approach this situation with an open, if skeptic, mind.

If you have done drugs, then I still dont blame you for your skepticism, but that doesnt mean I agree with you.

And god dammit my apostrophe key isnt working

First of all, why the quotations on God unless you're implying that what you experienced was anything else?


Second, you experience God every second of every minute of every hour of every day, whether you want to or not, whether you think you are or not, and whether you believe in Him or not. You don't just get a Godly experience when you're high (including religious highs, substance highs, any sort of high. The experience might be magnified, but you're always experiencing God nonetheless).

[PowerCow5000]

First of all, why the quotations on God unless you're implying that what you experienced was anything else?


Second, you experience God every second of every minute of every hour of every day, whether you want to or not, whether you think you are or not, and whether you believe in Him or not. You don't just get a Godly experience when you're high (including religious highs, substance highs, any sort of high. The experience might be magnified, but you're always experiencing God nonetheless).

1. my "God" is not the same concept as the big guy in the clouds that most people think of when they think god.

2. yes, I've already said this.

[Zogo]

1. my "God" is not the same concept as the big guy in the clouds that most people think of when they think god.

then why call him that? why not "buddy?"

[Breaker]

when i was 15 my girlfriend called my dick buddy.