Little wirte up about TF2 in steam updates today

[realy]

Just noticed this morning when I loaded steam, when the updates window poped up after it loaded I hit next, skipping another The Ship trial, and there was a picture of some TF2 characters and one little paragraph above. They said they were excited about a playtest at 6:00, that the picture below was the one currently used as the background for the game, and that there were going to release more information about TF2. Did anyone else happen to hit next in the steam updates pop-up window by chance and see this? I can't get it to pop up again, and can't find the same little write up on there web-site.

[Vr_]

nope. hope the playtest goes well. cant wait for tf2

[caedere]

I'd be excited if I wasn't already convinced it's vaporware

[LittleAndroidMan]

eh, if TF2 is anything like the preview suggests, I'll just play FF.

[Rando(v) Rocket]

for anyone who doesn't feel like going on/relogging on to steam
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/9938/tf2sk7.jpg

[SUPITSREV]

spy blatent ripoff of the hitman game

[realy]

It's funny that the picture doesn't show either the medic or the soldier. A lot of things I have read about FF makes it sound like other classes are more powerful. New direction for the game on both fronts?

[red baron]

There's a pokeball in the background of my TF2!

[LittleAndroidMan]

further proof tf2 is going to blow

[Killian]

And FF will be sooo much better right?

[LittleAndroidMan]

Let's put this in perspective...

FF - A game made by TFC'ers, for TFC'ers.

TF2 - A game made by a company made by people who haven't given the TFC community an update to their game in 3 years.

Who do you expect is going to be there to give the community what it wants and deserves? It certainly isn't going to be Valve. This community has been begging Valve for an update, since who knows when, and we always get the shaft.

[|RES|arod]

We get a game that is over 7 years old with thousands of players still playing. Fuck you valve for making such a shitty game.

[LittleAndroidMan]

You're forgetting there's a post-steam Valve, and a pre-Steam Valve...

[Redneck]

eh, if TF2 is anything like the preview suggests, I'll just play FF.

.

[Vr_]

Let's put this in perspective...

FF - A game made by TFC'ers, for TFC'ers.

TF2 - A game made by a company made by people who haven't given the TFC community an update to their game in 3 years.

Who do you expect is going to be there to give the community what it wants and deserves? It certainly isn't going to be Valve. This community has been begging Valve for an update, since who knows when, and we always get the shaft.


not the FF crew thats for sure

[PHISH]

lolz! That's probably a good thing

[Bosss]

Let's put this in perspective...

FF - A game made by TFC'ers, for TFC'ers.

TF2 - A game made by a company made by people who haven't given the TFC community an update to their game in 3 years.

Who do you expect is going to be there to give the community what it wants and deserves? It certainly isn't going to be Valve. This community has been begging Valve for an update, since who knows when, and we always get the shaft.


Really though, no one is going to play FF, well ok maybe a few players, lets say 10 at any given time...

TF2 is gonna have alot more players, thier gonna sell it in stores for fucks sake!

bottom line, dont hate till ya play it kid.

[Cobalt]

We get a game that is over 7 years old with thousands of players still playing. Fuck you valve for making such a shitty game.
Obviously.

Yay for postcounts.

[GhOsT]

Let's put this in perspective...

FF - A game made by TFC'ers, for TFC'ers.

TF2 - A game made by a company made by people who haven't given the TFC community an update to their game in 3 years.

Who do you expect is going to be there to give the community what it wants and deserves? It certainly isn't going to be Valve. This community has been begging Valve for an update, since who knows when, and we always get the shaft.
You also forget that some of the original creators of TF are working for Valve and TF2. So far they have created 2 very popular games (TF and TFC). For some reason I think they might know a little bit about how to create a fortress game.

Whenever I see people say "by the community for the community" I cringe. The goal should not be to cater to this community. It should be to expand on this community and get some fresh blood. If you only cater to this community you shut out new players and you basically just shifted over a smaller set of the TFC commuity over to a newer game. Thankfully the FF team isn't just looking at this community.

[jungle juice]

im going to try both and if i like both i will play both but to tell you the truth im really looking forward to FF more then i am TF2.

[LittleAndroidMan]

not the FF crew thats for sure

While I think there is a fair amount of bias in the FF crew, it sure isn't as

Really though, no one is going to play FF, well ok maybe a few players, lets say 10 at any given time...

And that's different, how? There are hundreds of people playing TFC at any moment, but 99% of them are noobie 2fort and Dustbowl servers. And guess what. This concept is going to be outstretched when you introduce the majority of STEAM users to a new game, such as TF2. Remember back in the early 2000's, when the only map that was played was 2fort [not literally], that's only going to be amplified because of the new audience the community is going to be reaching.

TF2 is gonna have alot more players, thier gonna sell it in stores for fucks sake!

That means absolutely nothing. If anything, it's going to open up the doors to more noobs to come in and ruin the game. Everytime you go into a pub server, you're going to be hassled with questions on 'how to do this....', 'how do I bind', 'how do I bhop', etc. I don't know about you, but I like to spend my time playing, not teaching some idiot [who can't use google, btw] to do basic stuff.

bottom line, dont hate till ya play it kid.

More broken logic there, bud. I can tell from the PREVIOUS previews of TF2, that it's going to blow. I remember way-back-when when Valve was taking pre-orders for TF2, and when I saw the preview, it looked horrendous. They transferred a great game into another FPS army clone. Look at what the FF crew has done. They have turned an awesome game [the reason TFC is awesome is because of it's psuedo-realistic aspects, such as rocket jumping, concing, etc, and have added some eye candy to it, along with a few slight modifications. For all we know, TF2 could TOTALLY change the face of TFC. In their Incredibles-eqsue preview, I saw no conc jumping, no bhopping, or any of the comforts of TFC.

You also forget that some of the original creators of TF are working for Valve and TF2. So far they have created 2 very popular games (TF and TFC). For some reason I think they might know a little bit about how to create a fortress game.

That means... what? Just because there are still some creators trailing behind means nothing. Over at big companies like Valve, you have project managers who dictate to the creators what they are supposed to do, and if they don't listen, they're fired or dropped from the job. If anything, the real driving force behind the making of TF2 is marketing. They're looking to make money off of a game that makes them little [TFC]. It's all money, and when you introduce money, it pretty much ruins the scenario.

Whenever I see people say "by the community for the community" I cringe. The goal should not be to cater to this community. It should be to expand on this community and get some fresh blood. If you only cater to this community you shut out new players and you basically just shifted over a smaller set of the TFC commuity over to a newer game. Thankfully the FF team isn't just looking at this community.

Why would you 'cringe'? After all, the 'community' isn't in it for money. They are there to take suggestions from the 'community', not the company to make it more marketable, or addictive. They are taking the experiences of people who have played the game for sometime, and know what needs to be changed and kept the same. In other words, seniority. Expanding the community only leads to a breakdown of higher-level playing, and increases the lower-level 2fort/Dustbowl activities, which almost dominate the majority of TFC as we know it.

[GhOsT]

I cringe because a lot of people in this community (including you apparently) are only thinking about how to make higher-level organized clan play better. If you only focus on that you neglect joe pub who enjoys just playing dustbowl/2fort. Neglecting joe pub means that he stops playing and limits the growth potential for the game.

I'm not sure how long you've been playing TFC but back in the first couple years it was pretty easy to recruit people for your clan in pubs. New players have to come from somewhere. Now if you try and recruit it's the same old people bouncing from clan to clan (mostly).

As I said before, thankfully at least the FF devs seem to understand this.

[sk8turtle]

...That means absolutely nothing. If anything, it's going to open up the doors to more noobs to come in and ruin the game. Everytime you go into a pub server, you're going to be hassled with questions on 'how to do this....', 'how do I bind', 'how do I bhop', etc. I don't know about you, but I like to spend my time playing, not teaching some idiot [who can't use google, btw] to do basic stuff....

Were you always the amazing gamer that you are today? or did you start off as a newb, the way everyone else did?

Obviously money drives everything. If people want to get paid, they will do an excellent job. Money is a motivator, not a constrictor. You think a project manager would fire a guy, because he has a good idea? No. He'd get fired because he's got a shit idea or he's being an idiot.

TFC currently has a dying community because its an old game. FF will be the same game, just better graphics. NOW THATS FRESH.

Bottom line, if you can't market it to a mass amount of people, you're simply going to end up further starving the much needed influx of new players into the community.

[Pro]

just more time for me to put off building a new computer!

[Cobalt]

I cringe because a lot of people in this community (including you apparently) are only thinking about how to make higher-level organized clan play better. If you only focus on that you neglect joe pub who enjoys just playing dustbowl/2fort. Neglecting joe pub means that he stops playing and limits the growth potential for the game.

I'm not sure how long you've been playing TFC but back in the first couple years it was pretty easy to recruit people for your clan in pubs. New players have to come from somewhere. Now if you try and recruit it's the same old people bouncing from clan to clan (mostly).

As I said before, thankfully at least the FF devs seem to understand this.
I love you autodet.

[KiliK]

just more time for me to put off building a new computer!

yeah i was thinking the same thing when i read about the tf2 post release date push

[OhGr]

Let's put this in perspective...

FF - A game made by TFC'ers, for TFC'ers.

TF2 - A game made by a company made by people who haven't given the TFC community an update to their game in 3 years.

Who do you expect is going to be there to give the community what it wants and deserves? It certainly isn't going to be Valve. This community has been begging Valve for an update, since who knows when, and we always get the shaft.

I will be more than happy to comment on this being you have a narrow perspective on the topic....

It has already been said time and time again the people working on FF are not making the game for the League players of today, but more for the league players and PUB players of tomarrow. They want to attract new faces etc.. the game has some new stuff etc.. just because someone who plays TFC is making an upgraded version of it doesn't mean it's gonna exactly fit the style people here are looking for "league" wise and this is the first step for this crew. TFC Really hasn't needed an upgrade so I dunno why people are complaining, the game has an amazing replay value to it and well after this many years people are still here playing it. the one thing that would have been needed was the "EXACT SAME GAME" put onto a better gfx engine problem solved. Instead everyone wants to add or improve on something that really doesn't need much improvement.

I know it seems horrible the People at valve who make a living off games not just TFC are also doing other projects so they can feed their families lol how horrible! But I will keep my money on valve coming through with an amazing muilti player AGAIN to keep people entertained for another decade.

I would love to get the FAC video but its been pulled off the site it was on and I can't find it but there was a video leak off of TF2 showing FAC ( FULL AIR CONTROL ) some of you may remember the good ol' days of doin a conc and being able to perform a complete U turn and land on a dime.... well Valve knows what made TFC GOOD they also now know what made it bad Trust your own judgement they will come through :)

also wanna say about ur comment on noobs in pubs and using google to learn how to play... You should stop using it cause the ideas/opinions/information you are getting from it really aren't doing you any good.

[trance^E]

Let's put this in perspective...

FF - A game made by TFC'ers, for TFC'ers.

TF2 - A game made by a company made by people who haven't given the TFC community an update to their game in 3 years.

Who do you expect is going to be there to give the community what it wants and deserves? It certainly isn't going to be Valve. This community has been begging Valve for an update, since who knows when, and we always get the shaft.


lets put this in perspective even more.

FF - a game that is goin to be made for TFCers and played by TFCers (who arent too cheap to buy hl2)

TF2 - a game which is going to be available on not only xbox, but to every single person who has steam. the game will probably be on an actual shelf with episode 2. FF wont show up on everybodys steam window one random morning..

a community can make or break a game.. tfc sucks now because its not what it used to be... the community is gone and its all the same people.. how long do you think youre goin to enjoy doin that same thing on a newer engine?

id say FF had a chance before we knew there would be a TF2

[ruker]

Why must this turn into a moot argument. Anyone who says anything about how many players each game will get is a fucking moron. Neither game is out for christ sakes! Like android said, as from what ive seen of both games, I (not you because i dont give a fuck about you) will be playing FF instead of TF2. We are allowed to have our own opinions. I Think TF2 looks like its marketable for kids around the age 8-12, where as FF looks like a game i would definently want to play. Why is it so hard for some of you to realize you dont know everything, and just accept the fact that people (other than yourself) have opinions. Maybe android was being a little bias considering neither game is out yet, but i agree with most of what he said.

BTW im glad FF wont be as mainstream as TF2, we wont have to worry about it being the next CS. Not from a popularity stand point, but from a hackable perspective.


FF - a game that is goin to be made for TFCers and played by TFCers (who arent too cheap to buy hl2)

I dont think you could be more wrong in the long run. Sure FF will start off with mostly TFC'ers, but when people realize they have to pay for yet another mod, a free FF isnt going to look so bad.

[LittleAndroidMan]

Why must this turn into a moot argument. Anyone who says anything about how many players each game will get is a fucking moron. Neither game is out for christ sakes! Like android said, as from what ive seen of both games, I (not you because i dont give a fuck about you) will be playing FF instead of TF2. We are allowed to have our own opinions. I Think TF2 looks like its marketable for kids around the age 8-12, where as FF looks like a game i would definently want to play. Why is it so hard for some of you to realize you dont know everything, and just accept the fact that people (other than yourself) have opinions. Maybe android was being a little bias considering neither game is out yet, but i agree with most of what he said.

BTW im glad FF wont be as mainstream as TF2, we wont have to worry about it being the next CS. Not from a popularity stand point, but from a hackable perspective.




I dont think you could be more wrong in the long run. Sure FF will start off with mostly TFC'ers, but when people realize they have to pay for yet another mod, a free FF isnt going to look so bad.

I just typed up a long response to all the rebuttals above, but this post pretty much sums it up. I guess what I'm afraid of [and trying to avoid] is FF (and our community) becoming similar the CS community. As it stands now, CS could be just be a game totally made up of hackers. I personally like to play fairly, and would enjoy it if my peers and competitors did so. Bringing a game into the 'mainstream' only introduces it to more hackers and hacker producers. Look at TFC currently, there are only a small handful of hack making morons, and it's hard to tell, but I'd be within reason to say that there's a fair amount of banned and people who never have been banned that do hack.

Varuker is also right in the sense that TF2 looks marketable to a younger spectrum of players. I've always been big on aesthetics, and I like it when my games give me a sort of 'visual high' or 'eye candy', and I'd be totally turned off my TF2. That's not to say that perhaps the rest of you can careless about aesthetics, but then as I stated earlier, you have to take a look at the reputation of each production crew. Valve has a long history of basically ignoring the community, and since the transfer from WON to Steam, it has only gotten worse.

PS: Charles Bronson is a fucking great band.

[OhGr]

So being that tf2 is going to have cartoon like gfx it's for children is what ur saying?

I agree gfx/visual effects make some shitty games actually fun and nice to play but give urself some time to realize that TF2 will not play on prolly half the people's computers here alone so don't mistake cartoon gfx for kids cause I don't think many under age of 16 can afford to just upgrade at any time.

When you start to go outside this community and go on other forums such as hardocp etc.. you see that a lot of gamers will play the games just to put their computers through a test of how much they can make that PC sweat. TF2 will offer that in it's gfx engine(not saying FF won't) but I think the cartoon characters are keeping the game to it's original purpose and also giving it something most ALL other FPS games don't.
The game was never meant for realism and having a large player base is what made this game so fucking badass in the first place. Who cares if people hack at least you got more players who are not with a large community. For example Look at leagues today they are filled with assholes and hackers and there is nothing many of us can do why because the community is TOO SMALL do you really think that TFC now is awesome as compared to even 3 yrs ago and even then it was going downhill due to steam cutting the players in half.

Keep in mind also the other games coming this year which will soak up players such titles like unreal 3, Bioshock, STALKER just to name a few that all effects FF and TF2's success rate.

I hope for the best on FF and I hope the devs get what they earned for putting in the effort and making a very pretty game but as said before a company who has released and done this already and been successful will have a higher rate of success in the end plus the marketing for it.

[Vendicator]

I think that overall... and many will probably disagree with me on this... but TF2 might actually HELP FF...

FF players will prolly play some TF2... getting some interaction between the communities, therefore pulling some new people to FF... i really dont feel like going into detail...

But ill just say this, id like to be in a FF and TF2 clan, meaning members play both, we can recruit TF2 players to play in FF aswell, similar games, yet different, therefore merging the communities in a way...

[Johnny Mullet]

I think that overall... and many will probably disagree with me on this... but TF2 might actually HELP FF...

FF players will prolly play some TF2... getting some interaction between the communities, therefore pulling some new people to FF..

Well, I have been following the Fortress Forever progress and I am happy with it. As far as TF2 goes, they better release some more media or news before dumping a lame game on our laps.

[16Valve]

We get a game that is over 7 years old with thousands of players still playing. Fuck you valve for making such a shitty game.

Thousands?

Maybe hundreds is a little more like it.

Sad that the thread dissolved into another FF vs TF2 community piss-fest.

Play both. Decide for yourself. Even if FF sucks, I'll support them even if I NEVER play it again. Given Valve's level of quality, it will be polished and fun to play.
How hard is that?

Now that being said:
I'm not sure if a group of "amateurs" can make a great game even IF they've been playing it for years and are part of the community.
That is also a point to be made that BECAUSE they are so close to the game, they may not have perspective as outsiders may have.
I don't like what they're doing as far as BHing and movement techniques goes but that's own personal slant on things. The "hardcores" around these parts are all giddy about it. I think it makes FF less accessable to everyone (even though they say "well everyone can do it").

But like I said, even if I hate it, I'll still support it and keep my mouth shut on whether or not it sucks. I've known many of these guys for years (in the online sense anyway).

[|RES|arod]

Yes, believe it or not, there are still thousands who play this game in their free time.

[Vendicator]

Play both. Decide for yourself. Even if FF sucks, I'll support them even if I NEVER play it again. Given Valve's level of quality, it will be polished and fun to play.
How hard is that?

Now that being said:
I'm not sure if a group of "amateurs" can make a great game even IF they've been playing it for years and are part of the community.

Correct me if im wrong, but these "amateurs", some of them at least, i do believe are taking college classes, or have taken classes for game design and what they are doing now, and FF is basically thier proof that they arnt amateurs and can and will be very possible candidates for some decent video game companies...

yes they want to make FF because its awesome and a big support and morale booster to the community, but its not all in vein, it shows thier skills and they take FF on a professional level, its not just hurry up and release it, they are making good decisions as a whole, and working as a team, and the job is being done in a very professional mannor, atleast as far as i can see...

I dont think FF will be crappy when it comes out, nor do i think it will be pummeled by TF2... simply for the reason that they are working as a team and even with the community, and also that they are beta testing and fixing bugs to make sure the first release will be as stable and playable as possible...

They have put lots of time and effort into FF... i would not consider them amateurs.... go look at some other Source mods... imo FF is one of the better ones out there when it comes to all aspects... Source Forts may be unique and popular, but guess what? I guarantee they can NOT create something as in depth and customized as FF...

[dylan]

what are you ppl talking about.

neither are out, the only point you should be making right now is whether you wanna pay 25 bucks for TF2 + Portal + EP2.

I know I will, Portal looks awesome.

[GhOsT]

Well, it's $40 for TF2 + Protal + Ep2 (unless that has changed recently). Still, I don't think that is too much for what is being offered. Also, if TF2 gives me as much enjoyment as TFC has then the money will be more than worth it.

Also, I agree. Portal does look fun. I can't wait to see the videos that come out from that. I also can't wait to see the user created maps for that. I think you are going to see a community rise up for that similar to the trick jumping community in TFC.

[Jarek]

im excited about both, who fucking cares they both look like enjoyable games you fucking nerds

[jumbok]

so everybody thinks it's bad that both games are coming out at the same time. i think it might actually be good for ff as vendicator suggested.

if tf2 is more userfriendly, it'll be what pulls the new players to the fortress community. then if ff is more hardcore and nuanced, it'll pull the players that master tf2 or feel like they want something a bit harder.

i love to slag cs for being too simple, but if it weren't for cs i'd never have been led into tfc because i heard tfc was like cs but more complicated and interesting.

the thigns that will really be competition for the two games are quake wars and the other teambased shooters with vehicles etc.

[GhOsT]

if tf2 is more userfriendly, it'll be what pulls the new players to the fortress community. then if ff is more hardcore and nuanced, it'll pull the players that master tf2 or feel like they want something a bit harder.

I'm all for having all the hardcore players who feel the need to make rules about every little thing and take the game too seriously play one game. Then I'll know which one to avoid so I can enjoy playing.

[MERKiN-fS-]

TF2 will rape, i like how its maintaining the cartoonish style of play. FF looks cool and all, but it looks "slow" to me. Kind of like how source is slow, and all the other FPS's out are slow. TFC is fast as all fuckin hell, being based on Quake's engine. It needs to stay like that in order to keep the *TF theme going.

But, i'll play both ha.

[Janus]

just curious as to how you can tell? We don't even know if TF2 has bhop.

[LunaticWithCandy]

I cringe because a lot of people in this community (including you apparently) are only thinking about how to make higher-level organized clan play better. If you only focus on that you neglect joe pub who enjoys just playing dustbowl/2fort. Neglecting joe pub means that he stops playing and limits the growth potential for the game.

I'm not sure how long you've been playing TFC but back in the first couple years it was pretty easy to recruit people for your clan in pubs. New players have to come from somewhere. Now if you try and recruit it's the same old people bouncing from clan to clan (mostly).

As I said before, thankfully at least the FF devs seem to understand this.

Every community needs a base to build on. If you don't have joe pub playing on your server, than you have no new players being developed into the game. Without new players, there's no one around to replace those who retires. When that happens the game dies. EG the current state of TFC. Yea yea, there's 40 clans playing still, but that's nothing compared to what TFC was. TFC now compared to it's prime... game is just stagnant, and reeks a little. This community REALLY needs fresh blood.

And I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it. FF is going to benefit a lot from TF2. Especially if the communities that exist now embrace both games. If a place like .id runs both TF2 and FF, you're going to get converts. Fresh stream of people coming into the community and seeing that we also play this other style of fortress. They're going to want to know what it's all about. There is no reason both games can't coexist. It's just going to take us in the TFC community reaching out to those that will play TF2.

[Direhit]

just curious as to how you can tell? We don't even know if TF2 has bhop.

Bhop, or lack there, does not have to be indicative of the overall game pace and speed. One of the major flaws in TFC is that movement and speed are directly related, you can't achieve one without the other. This is one thing I can only hope is solved in TF2, and if it is, bhop won't even be needed.

[busdriver]

just curious as to how you can tell? We don't even know if TF2 has bhop.

if theres bhop in CS:source i dont see why it wouldnt be in tf2...i mean fuck, in CSS you can maintain speed pretty fucking good even if you just jump in straight lines after a few bhops..

[Direhit]

if theres bhop in CS:source i dont see why it wouldnt be in tf2...i mean fuck, in CSS you can maintain speed pretty fucking good even if you just jump in straight lines after a few bhops..

Just because one Valve game has it in doesn't mean another has to have it. Can Valve put it in? Well it's obvious they could from a technical standpoint, but furthermore the question is should they. Considering none of us here have played the game yet, it's hard to answer that question. As for bhopping in CSS, it's actually incredibly difficult compared to TFC and it takes a significant amount of time to truly master it which is why you mostly only see it in top tier clans.