No Grenades & Release Date? Eh?

[Direhit]

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=546731

http://www.pcaction.de/covers/large/PCA_0507_Cover_DVD16_NEU.jpg

For those of you who can read German, have fun: http://www.hlportal.de/?site=news&do=shownews&news_id=5054

Maybe someone wants to translate the whole article. The most important news:


Black box will be released at the end of september 07
There will be no more grenades for all player classes besides the demo man.
Capture the flag is now known as "capture the documents". You have to steal an executive case.
Scout can make double-jumps like in UT games.
Medics can heal over great distances and make you invulnerable for 10 seconds

Don't ask me if it's 100% accurate as I genuinely have no clue if it is.

[Capita]

sounds like shit tbh

[AO`]

For TF2's sake, I hope this is not accurate.

[Klone]

FF wins

[bleeP]

^ what klonedizzle said

[elwood-]

i have nothing more to add other than what my boys ao and klone bone said.

[ian.de]

fucking what the fuck, wow. Someone do a direct TFC port please.

[Stayne]

sounds shitty. guess we'll have to continue waiting to find out if it really is or not.

[MyN]

Game magazine German ace PC Action published in its edition newly appearing today a world exclusive Preview by team Fortress 2. Therein we do not learn less than concrete information to the weapons, novelty in the Gameplay and further confirmed Map-Remakes. But as that would be not already enough, lets disclose Valve also a more exact Releasedate: That looked appears box the end of September 2007.

At least if this appointment should be held, unlike 2003, but with such speculations we would like to stay not at all. To be sure we not for legal reasons may show you the new Screenshots of team Fortress 2, give summarized for that it all relevant information out of the Preview and the pertinent interview compact:

* Generally *

* It more will give no "normal" garnets. Valve finds unify this the different classes too strongly. * Unlike in Fortress Forever Teleporter in team Fortress 2 are retained. There is also the ammunition donor again. * A customized statistics-system will give it. For example a text as well as "Hey, so well how today have you your class never played - further so!" appears in the game then. * Valve considers the classes in other games to be a joke. "What makes it for a difference whether I a M16 or an AK47-Gewähr would select", asks Robin Walker. * It would be technically thoroughly possible that PC, XBOX360 play- and PS3-Spieler against each other, whether it this Feature however into the finished game creates is yet uncertain and hangs of Sony and Microsoft off. * Only a few Drohbriefe recovered Valve based on the new comic strip-design of TF2. * Additional, not named, graphics details receive Multicore-owner. *

* Classes *

* The Scout can perform the Double-Jump well known out of the Unreal-games. I tcan jump therefore a second time in the air. * The Medic partner can heal over large distance, solang eye contact exists. Moreover it can and its patient for 10 seconds invulnerable make itself. * An own near battle weapon has each class. Also the secondary weapon differs usually. It follows a listing of the classes with its head weapons, next to and near battle weapons:
* O Scout (scout) : Shotgun, pistol, baseball beater
o Soldier (soldier) : Rocket launcher, shotgun, shovel
o Pyro (fireworks) : Flame thrower, shotgun, fire department-ax
o demo one (Bombenleger) : Klebebombe-sling, Granatwerfer, broken bottle of
o Heavy Weapon Guy: Machinegun (mini-Gun), shotgun, fists
o Engineer (pioneer) : Shotgun, pistol, wrench
o Medic (orderly) : Machines pistol, Heilungsstrahler, bone saws
o Sniper (sniper) : Sniper-weapon, machines pistol, thigh
o Spy (spy) : Revolver, cigarettes case (camouflaged PDA to the change of the disguise), knife

* Maps & Gameplay *

* It also a Remake of the TF-Map "Well" will give next to 2Fort. * It gives completely new Maps also for the game mode "territorial inspection". Per chance generator decided becomes which part the Map conquers will should, possesses takes depending which team this area it automatically the defender roll on. * In the Map Well trains pass through through the Map, which the players better should avoid. * Out of Capture the flew will must go along let "Capture the Documents", one at the same time instead of a flag an acts suitcase out of the hostile basis.

Also portal and episode Two are introduced on three further sides once again, to be sure they contain looked up to the of Releasedate named already above that box no considerable new information. And that not also should change in episode Two, Valve would not like to the Release end autumn no information and details more to the helped-Life 2-continuation publish to ruin the tension around us.

He who does not give himself with our summary satisfied or unconditionally would like to see the new teams Fortress 2 Screenshots, can buy Action from today the new edition of the PC inclusive Preview. Everyone others wait appear at the latest for the end of September, for then the three looked-box Games! (Perhaps.)

Ran through a translator. In addition, it says teleporter will be retained and the map Well has trains now. I think there's more info in there though.

[puppychow]

apparently that translator only got its GED. Thanks tho. Most interesting.

[jungle juice]

TF2 Livin' up to be pretty lame so fare.

[Cobalt]

Apparently there's a PCZone article from the brits due out soon, I'll wait for that, but..

Assuming this is all true, this seems to have a nice stench of dumbing down the game for console players - as well as delaying the game so the console companies can hop aboard...

No gren1s will be alright...provided that the weapons are UT99 powerful, but something tells me they won't be.

[loserville]

It says no "normal" grenades, so hopefully that means concs and whatnot stay which I'd have absolutely no problem with.

This invulnerability and healing over long distance thing sounds way too absurd. I don't think Valve would be dumb enough to put something that gamechanging in here, so I'll wait until I see an english article with actual details on this before I make any assumptions on it.

Everything else I'm fine with so far. My number one concern is concs.

[aXeman]

Here's a loose translation of the essential information from that site:



General

* There won't be "normal" grenades anymore. Valve thinks that they unify the different classes too much.

* Unlike in Fortress Forever, teleporters are kept in Team Fortress 2. The ammo dispenser will make a comeback as well.

* There will be a personalized statistics system. For example, you could see an in-game message like "Hey, you've never played your class as well as today - keep it up!"

* Valve thinks that classes in other games are a joke. "Where's the difference between me choosing a M16 or an AK-47 rifle?", asks Robin Walker.

* It would be technically feasible to let owners of a PC, XBOX 360 and PS3 play against each other. Whether this feature makes it into the final game is still uncertain and depends on Sony and Microsoft.

* Valve received very few threatening letters because of TF2's comic design.

* Owners of multicore processors will get additional, undisclosed, graphics details.



Classes

* The Scout can perform a double jump, as known from the Unreal games. That is, he'll be able to jump a second time while in the air.

* The Medic can heal team members from long distances, as long as they are in sight. Furthermore, he can make himself and his patients invulnerable for 10 seconds.

* Every class has a unique close-combat weapon. Even the secondary weapons differ from each other often times. Following is a list of classes with their primary, secondary and close-combat weapons:

* Scout: Shotgun, pistol, baseball bat.
* Soldier: Rocket launcher, shotgun, shovel.
* Pyro: Flamethrower, shotgun, fire axe.
* Demo Man: Sticky bomb slingshot, grenade thrower, broken bottle.
* Heavy Weapons Guy: Machine gun (mini gun), shotgun, fists.
* Engineer: Shotgun, pistol, wrench.
* Medic: Machine pistol, healing ray, bone saw.
* Sniper: Sniper rifle, machine pistol, club.
* Spy: Revolver, cigar case (PDA for switching your disguise), knife.



Maps & Gameplay

* Apart from 2Fort, there'll be a remake of Well.

* There will be completely new maps for the game mode "Territorial Control". It will be randomly decided which area of a map is supposed to be conquered and the team in possession of that area will assume the role of defenders.

* There will be trains rolling through the map Well, which should be avoided by players.

* Capture The Flag becomes Capture The Documents. Instead of capturing a flag, you'll have to capture a briefcase from the opponent's base.

a little better translation.

[Janus]

hmm. sure as hell doesn't sound like TFC. I will be buynig Ep2 and Portal so I will probably try it, but I am and have been waiting for FF so no loss for me.

[Bp-2X]

hmm. sure as hell doesn't sound like TFC. I will be buynig Ep2 and Portal so I will probably try it, but I am and have been waiting for FF so no loss for me.

pretty much tell 100% what I think.

How can you defend a catpure point in ADL if the jumper is invulnerable for 10 sec. O.o

[~A~]

Trains rolling through Well that we have to avoid? Random map objectives? No grenades?

SWEET!

[Pro]

Sounds like good news for FF.

[janordy]

No grens, thats awesome news. Less spam is great.

[northern lights]

I don't think they are completely retarded and even with such obscure changes it could still be an amazing game. I'd rather see very powerful weapons then 6 grenades on EVERY player.

[SteelValor]

That's the gayest thing I've seen since Gay moved to Gaytown!

[Sutterkane]

What is it all the ff defenders have said in the ff bashing threads?

"Wait until you play the mod before you judge it"

No gren1s sounds great. Notice there is no "super shotgun", just a shotgun, so scouts will be pretty strong on offense. I highly doubt invulnerability lasts a full 10 seconds. I like the melee weapon choices and I'm also glad they're keeping teles in.

[Cobalt]

Sutter just wants the Sutterkane rule in CAL.

[schtoofa]

if those magazine's descriptions are true, props to valve for being creative and deviating so much from TFC. I love the idea that the different classes have different melee weapons.

Ima wait until I play it to judge it.

[MeestarK]

NO GRENADES? HOW WILL I PLAY SOLDIER??????????

[PHISH]

i'm being redundant, but it sounds awesome, I like where they are going with it, about the path I would take if I could shape the game from scratch

[polarity]

NO GRENADES? HOW WILL I PLAY SOLDIER??????????

Like me!

























ROCKETSHOTTYSHOTTYSHOTTYROCKETSHOTTYSHOTTYSHOTTYSH OTTYROCKETROCKETRELOADROCKETROCKETSHOTTYSHOTTY

[Redneck]

Sounds like good news for FF.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Stayne]

at least the games will be different ;)

[Klone]

I guess its not so bad if they just take out +gren1.. I was assuming that all grenades were taken out. Without gren1 that probably means you will always need a demoman to take out sentry guns. I think that could be a good thing, offensive demoman will be more popular than it is in TFC. I just hope the game has bhop.

[tyson^cool]

I don't think they are completely retarded and even with such obscure changes it could still be an amazing game. I'd rather see very powerful weapons then 6 grenades on EVERY player.

I agree. I think the whole Fortress style of game needs new ideas, and this doesn't sound terrible.

[kno[x]]

Bone saw.

Brutal.

[Direhit]

I just hope the game has bhop.

I'd put my money on it that TF2 won't have bhop.

[atheist]

I'd put my money on it that TF2 won't have bhop.

Valve was against bhop when it was first discovered. So.. I'm guessing you're right.

[Killian]

Oh dang tf2 actually requires you to know how to use guns instead of grenades WTF!!

[shaggy]

With the removal of normal grenades, the skill level in fighting will go up. Anyone decent can time a grenade. Killing people by aiming is alot harder. On the same token SG's will be worth alot more, with the offense lacking grenades to take them out. Perhaps that's why they give the medic a 10 second invunerability. I still think that isn't a good way to solve that problem, and I sure the hell hope they have a limited number of times they can use it or decent time period between uses.

If they are going that rout, I think it would of been cooler if the Medic could administer adreniline into comrads. Giving them highten speed, strength and durability for the alotted 10 seconds.
Speed = 1.3 times
Jumping height = 1.3 times
Health = drops 1.5 times slower (armor drops like normal)
Strength = melee weapon does 1.5 times damage

[Vengeant]

pretty much tell 100% what I think.

How can you defend a catpure point in ADL if the jumper is invulnerable for 10 sec. O.o

This wont exactly lead to class variety on offense as some have suggested, either.

4 Medic Offenses (which seem to plague TFC now) will return yet again.

Who needs to kill SGs or Demomen when a class can be invulnerable to them and run by? Why conc an HW, just pop invulnerability, run by him, then conc away (all feasible to do within 10 seconds).

2 Sgs and a Demo on the flag? Have 3 medics heal another from afar as he concs (with invulnerability on, of course) and grabs the flag.

RE-TAR-DED.

[tyson^cool]

Wait are you guys really going to get caught up in the pre-release speculation? Do you really think valve would implement something that would ruin gameplay and cause people to not want to play it?

Don't knock it till you try it. Same with FF.

[sc`]

meh

[SteelValor]

on some maps 10 seconds will take you from spawn to fr to spawn

[Cobalt]

on some maps 10 seconds will take you from spawn to fr to spawn
Damn it sv, update your logic routines. If the game slows down 10 seconds may be quick. /shrug

[ian.de]

yeah, speed is one aspect of the fortress genre that shouldnt be left out

[colin]

the fuck are you guys smoking?

grenades MAKE tfc. i completely agree that they're overpowered but this game would be horrible without them.

[Toastie]

not really... ppl have fun doing the scout vs sold 2v2's without grenades (primary grenades)

[Direhit]

the fuck are you guys smoking?

grenades MAKE tfc. i completely agree that they're overpowered but this game would be horrible without them.

Yeah, except Valve isn't making TFC:S. It's a different game, something completely different, which god knows the TF community needs.

[C-Aim]

10 SECONDS of invulnerability is a terrible idea... There are just so many situations for overuse with that. Imagine (as people have said) on an ADL map trying to kill a flag carrier with medic backups. I truely hope that this is erroneous because if it isn't then I don't have to wait any amount of time to see it; it will suck. Even without bhopping a scout can be in and out of your base with the flag in mere moments, so then mappers would have to make larger and larger maps to compensate.

Also, if it turns out that they slowed the whole game down so that console owners don't get rolled then it is even worse. Sure, the 10 seconds wouldn't be as much an issue, but then where is the adrenaline fueled attempts to get out of the enemy base as fast as you can? IMO it would ruin the excitement of a game like this.

But I love the grenade idea, it would definitely ramp up the skill necessary and eliminate the players that just run around their base priming grenades so that every time you see them you get a grenade in the face.

[Jarek]

wtf? right now imo the thing that differs a good medic from a bad medic is how intelligently he uses his grenades

any medic can spam 2 at a soldier, but you see very few people these days actually aiming their grenades well enough to be up a notch

sounds interesting, i just don't see how anything but a group of invincible medics is going to get by a demo piping the flag with sgs and an hw tank sitting there mowing you down. with no grenades to dm the demo quickly with this game will get slowed down a lot.

[SteelValor]

Damn it sv, update your logic routines. If the game slows down 10 seconds may be quick. /shrug


oooooooooh good
http://members.arstechnica.com/x/treatment/carl-2-athf.jpg

[Cobalt]

:D

[Dave]

Most of you seem to want TFC ported to steam, so you are going to be let down. On the other hand, those of us who want a new game thats kind of like TFC have something to look forward to, even if it's still a year or more away.
Will it be a great game? We won't know until we get to play it, but the one thing Valve has made very clear is that it's going to be very different from TFC.
If they do have bhop in the game, you can bet that it will be a fairly simple maneuver so that everyone will be able to do it.

[colin]

Yeah, except Valve isn't making TFC:S. It's a different game, something completely different, which god knows the TF community needs.

i don't want a tfc:s. i find ff to be completely pointless because if i want to be playing what is essentially tfc i will play tfc.

my point is that without grenades combat will be just like every other boring fps. point and shoot with your hitscan weapons and see who drops first. they're probably already going to eliminate a lot of the movement in this game and now are eliminating 75% of the dodging

[colin]

not really... ppl have fun doing the scout vs sold 2v2's without grenades (primary grenades)

that's because grenades are overpowered in tfc, which i admitted to. your entire post pertains to a subset of players trying to make up for the flaws in tfc that shouldn't even exist if tf2 is done properly.

[Direhit]

that's because grenades are overpowered in tfc, which i admitted to. your entire post pertains to a subset of players trying to make up for the flaws in tfc that shouldn't even exist if tf2 is done properly.

And yet you're still thinking from a TFC standpoint and that's a big problem most people in this community will have with TF2, especially if these radical changes are legit. Keep an open mind and you never know, you might actually have some fun. Judge all you want, but in reality all the shit talking doesn't mean anything until we actually try this game, and FF for that matter.

[Milosenpotion]

As dire just touched on, all the changes being named really don't mean jack shit until we get to see how it really affects things. They aren't giving people 10 seconds of invincibilty in TFC, they're doing it for a game that is going to be different. This isn't like FF where we have a pretty good idea of how changes will effect the game already.

[16Valve]

I'd put my money on it that TF2 won't have bhop.

Thank. Fucking. Christ.

[Kartikeya-OD]

I could careless about it having bhop as long as the game was still fast paced which it seems to be.

[[GoW]HK]

i guess im the only one that thinks those all sound awesome.

[dramling]

at least the games will be different ;)
^^
i dont really like the sound of tf2 from what they say there but i think the differing gameplay could provide a nice variety and i'll certainly try it before i make real judgement

[MoonGuardian]

pretty much tell 100% what I think.

How can you defend a catpure point in ADL if the jumper is invulnerable for 10 sec. O.o


you can change almost all settings like that by map. I would be astonished if you could not disable such functions.

[FlyMoto]

i can't think of many situations where 10 seconds of invulnerability won't be rediculously overpowered, except for the fact that no grenades will severely weaken medic for DM O. perhaps other nades will be around besides concs for medics? like infection-bearing gas nades or something?

[hawk]

I don't expect much praise here for anything but even this is a little much for the Cats.

Not a single one of you have played the game yet some of you are acting like they just nerfed the entire game. If you want to play TFC then keep playing it. If you want to play a modified/updated TFC play FF. If you want a completely new TF game wait for TF2. It seems like some of you guys just want for FF/TF2 to recreate TFC with new graphics - which would be an awful idea.

Valve has messed up things in their multiplayer games, no doubt, but for the most part they have been quite good about making fun games. There's a reason why we are all still here, Valve created an incredible game. Judging by their track record TF2 will probably be a wildly successful game that will be fun to play. At least wait to see how some of these ideas play out.

[Manji]

I luv catacombs! :p
... because I can post a magazine-scan here without being afraid of admins.

Scan (click) (http://free.pages.at/dafengyu/pcanews0507.gif)

See some screens of well.bsp , the healing-ray of the medic and so on.



There is no "direct" translation of the whole article. But there exist a news with the "whole" content (What you guys posted is not 100%) on teamfortress2.de (click) (http://teamfortress2.de/news_details.php?id=284) (german and english)

[Toastie]

thats because the mods at the other forum take themselves too seriously

[pitsniper]

I like the idea of no normal grenades. Always thought their blast radius and damage was too large in tfc anyways.

[Telos]

Wait are you guys really going to get caught up in the pre-release speculation? Do you really think valve would implement something that would ruin gameplay and cause people to not want to play it?

hello riot shield in CS

[Redneck]

rofl that is a classic I dunno what you're talking about.

[Klone]

Wait are you guys really going to get caught up in the pre-release speculation? Do you really think valve would implement something that would ruin gameplay and cause people to not want to play it?

hello teleporters in TFC

[jumbok]

i trust valve but the fact that they decided to keep tp when it's so hated in tfc worries me a little.

i wonder if people will find alternatives to bhop? all the skidding and bouncing from physics in these games makes it seems like there are lots of grey areas, and players always have a ton more time to find quirks than the devs do.

i'm also a little shocked to think of spies no longer being the sentry killing class. this means they'd only have gas nades right?

[.50bmg]

No grenades? there goes spamming. "make you invulnerable for 10 seconds" That makes maps like dustbowl and Ksour useless too. anyone can just pipejump or rocket jump and not be harmed by anything including SG's :\

If this is true, then the game will be really lame. I hope it isn't...

[MoonGuardian]

don't knock it, till ya try it :rolleyes:

[ian.de]

you guys are talking about attack and defend? According to the developers custom mapping won't be possible for a while. And they are only putting out 4-5maps that are all command point (Warpath).

[Klone]

Where did you read that? I heard they were releasing the game with 6 maps, 3 remakes and 3 new maps. I know 4 of those were 2fort, well, dustbowl, and hydro (one of the 3 new maps), but I didn't hear anything about the other 2.

And about the invulnerability thing, they havn't said much about it. Maybe it ends once you pick up a flag, who knows?

[Badswell]

I believe in the 3rd interview, it talks about the 6 maps they are going to release. 5 of the 6 are warpath style. The other is the 2fort remake which is the only CTF initially.

[tyson^cool]

hello teleporters in TFC
yeah it ruined gameplay, thats why you quit rite..oh

[Klone]

It did ruin gameplay for certain maps (monkey is a good example, that's why they updated the map to monkey_lr), and it did make a lot of people quit the game when steam first came out so I'm not sure what your point is.

Could somebody link me to part 3 of that interview? On the game informer site I can only see part 1 and part 2. In part 2 it says:

GI: Which classic maps are making a return?

Walker: Well, 2Fort, and dustbowl.

edit: I found part 3. In the third paragraph it says:

Unfortunately I was not able to play all six of the maps in my visit, I did get to see 4 of the six maps including Well, dustbowl, 2fort, and the new map Hydro. The other two maps, were not playable.

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200703/N07.0328.1722.34101.htm?Page=1

[Rampaging Squirrel]

doesn't sound like TF2 will hold anyones interest for more than a couple months, but we'll see. It all really depends on how they implement the offense aspect of this game.

In truth, I'd like to see them keep the conc, eliminate bhopping, and make all of the classes run at about 125-135% of their normal speed and keep gren2s. So that really you only have about a third of the spam that TFC has now yet still keep grenades in play without losing class distinction (since that seems to be what valve is aiming at.)

[Redneck]

For all my bitching, if they make TF2 a skill-based game (which I doubt they will, considering the interviews) I'll be happy.

[Naufragus]

Are they really that fucking stupid?

[Stayne]

Yes, well is included, but it isn't CTF anymore. They are turning Well into warpath style.... with trains...

[Jimyd]

Another little note, why only 6 maps?

TF2 expansion pack to buy 6 more maps anyone?

ALA EA GAMES.

Taken from interview:
Primary Weapon: Revolver
Secondary Weapon: Cigarette case, Disguise Kit
Melee Weapon: Butterfly Knife
Other Weapon: Sapper

Sapper = Unrealfortress gun that would shock a player or sentry temporarly disabling it. (Think FF sabertaging but without the killing of your whole team.)

With medics invulnerability, easy sg killing combo.

That's why no grenades.

[Smeg]

i trust valve but the fact that they decided to keep tp when it's so hated in tfc worries me a little.



Hated in leagues, loved in pubs.

Game is not created for league play. Which if you think about it that would explain some of the choices they are making.

I still enjoy TFC but the reason I quit playing 3 years ago was cause if was stale. Looking forward to seeing what TF2 and FF have to offer. I may start playing in leagues again. They need bottomfeeders too. :D

[northern lights]

Cant wait to play it and everyone be blown away at the massive diversity needed to defend or attack properly. I have a feeling all 9 classes will need to come in to play somewhere most of the time. Everyone has a strength yet has a flaw too.