GameSpy's TF2 preview

[Hampster]

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/team-fortress-2/782564p1.html

Some new insights, two or three new pictures.

A bit scared at the longer respawn times...

[WoBMatt]

Sounds like they are maintaining the absurdity of HWGuy being the most unfun thing in the world to play against for anyone picking it.

"Had the most success as a heavy" and what not. Really bad if they do want to remove conc grenades and make it impossible to get past.

[wads]

http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/011/011640/img_4486505.html
nobody really knows how well it plays yet, but it looks amazing

[Direhit]

Well, the real reason I dumped the Sniper so fast was watching how much fun the Soldier class was having rocket-jumping around. Advanced physics are a big part of Team Fortress 2, and veterans should expect that they'll be able to do rocket jumps, grenade jumps, and several other crazy maneuvers. Thanks to the game's ragdoll physics, the bridge area regularly features bodies flying around in every direction, giving you something entertaining to watch while waiting to respawn.

Grenade jumps.... I doubt they are talking about just the demoman.

[Jarek]

very polished looking, niiice

i hope it plays well ill read this after work

[|RES|arod]

This sounds promising.

[CZ_]

im glad the respawns are longer i hate killing someone getting the flag and then they kill be on the way out

[4est]

* Hmmm... so 2fort bridge is a DM mess.
* Scout (without concs) took a rocket to the face and died (surprise)
* Another lame comment about making medic useful.
* A death cam for those not smart enough to figure out how to look around before clicking their mouse - It's also for those who can't watch death sprites.
* 10-20 second respawn time since watching a game is sooo much fun
* bleh...

[Marchy]

ontop of the long respawn time, 30 seconds until the flag is returned.

Sudden death with with only 1 life, as stated in the article, it's going to be DvD in an even worse case scenario.

This also gave me the impression of Counter-Strike elements. Slow, clunky, and lucky.

This game sounds even more absurd, and not in a good way.

[nautika]

http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/011/011640/img_4488809.html
what are those things on the ground?

[4est]

http://media.pc.gamespy.com/media/011/011640/img_4488809.html
what are those things on the ground?

Pipes.

Also notice the NG is looking at his PDA... oh... a PDA... what a great game element. :rolleyes:

[tyson^cool]

I didnt see where they said they were increasing the respawn time. Also the game is sounding more and more awesome.

[KiliK]

like wads said, looks amazing but who knows how it'll play

[Stayne]

Sounds like they are ripping off game ideas from FF. Particularly Spy components. FF Beta testers please fill us in.

[Jarek]

ew to slowing down gameplay.

[|RES|arod]

Sounds like they are ripping off game ideas from FF. Particularly Spy components. FF Beta testers please fill us in.
doubtful... You might have a case if ff was anywhere near as polished as tf2.

[4est]

doubtful... You might have a case if ff was anywhere near as polished as tf2.

So how polished is it?

[4est]

Sounds like they are ripping off game ideas from FF. Particularly Spy components. FF Beta testers please fill us in.

There really isn't suspicion or talk on the team about TF2 rippping ideas. Some of the common ideas are inherit to the classes. Some changes, like the spy cloak, are a result of the HL2 engine not allowing the old feign due the ginormous about of processing for each client to see correct rag dolls. Cloak was about the only available option for the spy. That having been said, I would not be surprised if they check the FF forums from time to time.

[aXeman]

Wow, it's gonna be amazing, no matter what anyone says, it's gonna be a fucking blast to play.

The graphics are just awesome.

[|RES|arod]

So how polished is it?
I am speaking in terms of media releases, which I would guess is the 'best' each mod has to show.

[Klone]

Also the game is sounding more and more awesome.

I agree 100%. I love everything I hear about this game.

The TF2 spy cloaking sounds much better than the FF spy cloaking. I like the idea of a respawn delay too, and I think the sudden death feature sounds awesome. When it goes to sudden death I dont think it will turn into a D vs D thing because I think at that point the map scoring doesn't matter, I think it turns into a deathmatch where the last team alive is the winner of the round. I like that a lot. I also like the idea of most of the maps being push/command point maps. It sounds like Well will play a lot like scrummage.

Also I laughed at the comment about medics finally being useful, but I know what he meant. What he should have said was "Finally, medics are doing what they were intended to do!"

* A death cam for those not smart enough to figure out how to look around before clicking their mouse - It's also for those who can't watch death sprites.

Oh no! You mean the game will be friendly to new players? That's a terrible idea!

[Redneck]

This is a somewhat more encouraging preview...


edit: Oh wait, it's not. It will blow.

[Stayne]

20 sec respawn delays?

This will FORCE medics to run around healing people. It will force people to try not to die. No more suiciding to resupply. This forces a medic and an engie to be on every D. This is a heavy-handed approach to strategy shifting. Then again, most of the changes they are making seem heavy-handed... forcing ppl to play TF the way the creators envisioned it (i.e., medic/hw duos).

What about the effect of respawn delays on offense? you die and have to wait 20 sec to respawn. how weak is that? the flag returns in 30 seconds. You really get 1 shot at touching the flag.

Invulnerability still sounds like the suck.

In their attempt to make the classes different, it reads like they have made the classes have extremely fixed niches. TFC classes seem to have a more generalist feel to them; they can do more than just one thing. TF2 reads like the classes are being forced into a specific mold and the devs are doing all they can to make sure they aren't used outside of that mold. Maybe its just poor explanation, but that's how it reads to me.

[Klone]

Yeah.. that's the whole purpose to having different classes... in any class based multiplayer game.. that's how tfc should be.

TFC has 3 classes: scout, sniper, and grenade.

[tyson^cool]

Stayne I dont see why you're troubled that the strategy teams will use wont be the same or even comparable to tfc's. Lets face it, its old. Invulnerability WILL play a role in matches, and I welcome it since it requires coordination and teamwork. In all the game sounds A LOT more team orientated.

[smurph]

Pipes.

Also notice the NG is looking at his PDA... oh... a PDA... what a great game element. :rolleyes:

Thats not a pda, looks like the top side of the wrench. Yep, thats def. a wrench.

[Marchy]

Stayne I dont see why you're troubled that the strategy teams will use wont be the same or even comparable to tfc's. Lets face it, its old. Invulnerability WILL play a role in matches, and I welcome it since it requires coordination and teamwork. In all the game sounds A LOT more team orientated.

yeah because people will sit there for a minute during a match trying to type out a strat for people to do. Then people will actually follow it because they are smart. People will want to learn new things and strats in pubs.

You know all those 1-2 people in pubs that might actually use a mic, people will listen to them too.

No offense and hey it's good to dream, but what you hope for is most likely a pipedream.

I don't mind new strats, I welcome them, I like finding new ways to get around a D even though I don't play O, but honestly this sounds like a basic shoot to kill or be killed.

Honestly I just cannot see Scrummage type maps working with the horrendously long respawn timer, they are bad enough in TFC since it's back and forth in the ever monotonous, tedious, and tiring fashion, unless teams are stacked in one way or another.

Oh yeah, think I read about the medic health beam or whatever it is, being able to go around corners? Correct me if I am wrong, but that is just wrong and way overpowered.

hey maybe stayne is right though, maybe being "forced" into a specific niche will help people strategize more with an unspoken language.--Which is a whole another can of worms.

[burnsy]

i haven't posted on the cats in a longgggggggg time, prolly 3-4 years, but i felt the need to say this.

in the interview, the writer mentioned alot of action occurring between the two bases and once he reached the enemies base it was empty, a lack of defense.

dont judge the game from these reviews. by the way these interviewers are playing the game, its seems they are playing it "newb" style by just running around killing each other.

they are not setting up defenses or offenses. everyone will need to wait till the game comes out to find out the right way to play it

all in all, don't jump to conclusions on how the game play is gonna turn out, people are already hypothesizing how they will set up their defenses and offenses. you wont know til you play the game

[4est]

Thats not a pda, looks like the top side of the wrench. Yep, thats def. a wrench.

ahh... I may have jumped the gun on that one. The NG does have a PDA though. It's the build menu interface.

[ian.de]

Respawn times? Are you kidding me?

Team Fortress Strike 2, can't wait to play it.

[16Valve]

Sounds like they are ripping off game ideas from FF. Particularly Spy components. FF Beta testers please fill us in.

Lol, I'm sure they're glued to the FF site :rolleyes: Please take off the tinfoil hats and get real. FF has some great ideas but I'm sure there's nothing that the FF team nor Valve can't think of on their own.

Maybe Dospac is just a mole for Valve.

I'M INSIDE UR FF STEALING UR CODEZ

[Direhit]

Sounds like they are ripping off game ideas from FF. Particularly Spy components. FF Beta testers please fill us in.

I'm pretty sure no one at the FF dev team thinks that, especially since TF2 most likely has been in development for a while, just obviously not publicly known. As for the spy components, while they may be similar in nature they don't seem to have the same impact on gameplay (though we don't know for sure obviously) and not to mention most of these new spy components have already existed in a previous TF mods, most notably CustomTF.

[Janus]

the game sounds...meh. I will still have to wait and play it, but evey news/interview I hear makes stuff sound worse and worse (a 20 second respawn timer? cmon)

[Sutterkane]

i haven't posted on the cats in a longgggggggg time, prolly 3-4 years, but i felt the need to say this.

in the interview, the writer mentioned alot of action occurring between the two bases and once he reached the enemies base it was empty, a lack of defense.

dont judge the game from these reviews. by the way these interviewers are playing the game, its seems they are playing it "newb" style by just running around killing each other.

they are not setting up defenses or offenses. everyone will need to wait till the game comes out to find out the right way to play it

all in all, don't jump to conclusions on how the game play is gonna turn out, people are already hypothesizing how they will set up their defenses and offenses. you wont know til you play the game


i agree, but if you setup layered defenses without concs, offensive scores will be EVEN lower. People are forgetting that concs not only get you across the yard faster, but push people out of position and you can also conc over defenders that are playing too far forward. not to mention concing somebody adds an element to the defender's aim. without this, good luck juking soldiers and hwguys.

[northern lights]

i agree, but if you setup layered defenses without concs, offensive scores will be EVEN lower. People are forgetting that concs not only get you across the yard faster, but push people out of position and you can also conc over defenders that are playing too far forward. not to mention concing somebody adds an element to the defender's aim. without this, good luck juking soldiers and hwguys.

stop comparing it to tfc gameplay, it's not going to be the same

TF2 will NOT be about offense being all about concs. The classes are going to play a much bigger role in specialized abilities. Finally a TF game where a spy, pyro, scout, and soldier on O makes sense, or many other combinations. The excessive reliance on concs in TFC is what made it so stale and repetitive. Give me the killing :D

[northern lights]

the game sounds...meh. I will still have to wait and play it, but evey news/interview I hear makes stuff sound worse and worse (a 20 second respawn timer? cmon)

To be fair, he did say 10 to 20 seconds, so who knows exactly. Maybe it is a server side variable.

[Stayne]

Stayne I dont see why you're troubled that the strategy teams will use wont be the same or even comparable to tfc's. Lets face it, its old. Invulnerability WILL play a role in matches, and I welcome it since it requires coordination and teamwork. In all the game sounds A LOT more team orientated.

My issue isn't with NEW strats. Read what I said. I'm concerned that they are FORCING the strats. The way they are setting up the game APPEARS to force players to do very specific things. From the sound of things, all a medic can do now is heal his team. The long respawn times will FORCE a medic to be part of the team (unless they want to be dead for half of a match).

It APPEARS that they are forcing strategies. It APPEARS to be a very heavy-handed attempt to FORCE people to play the game they way they envision it.

Compare that to previous versions of TF. The medic could be on D. Medic could stay back and heal. In pubs, medics often did fill that role. Medic wasn't FORCED to do anything. It just so happened that the medic's combined skills made for an extremely good offensive force. So, medics filled that role more often than a support role. But there was no heavy-handedness to it. Either role could be filled. Do you see the difference?

[Stayne]

I'm pretty sure no one at the FF dev team thinks that, especially since TF2 most likely has been in development for a while, just obviously not publicly known. As for the spy components, while they may be similar in nature they don't seem to have the same impact on gameplay (though we don't know for sure obviously) and not to mention most of these new spy components have already existed in a previous TF mods, most notably CustomTF.

Yes. There is bound to be some convergence due to the niche that the spy fills. Just what they were discussing in terms of the time to remain cloaked (which is different from q3f, if i remember right) and the ability to fuck with sgs (instead of destroy them b/c there are no nades). So, some similarity should be expected. Some of the ideas just sounded a bit too similar to ideas the FF team already released.

I did leave the caveat that those who know could rebut the assertion.

[Direhit]

Some of the ideas just sounded a bit too similar to ideas the FF team already released.

Again, maybe because they aren't actually that new of ideas as some might think. How they function, or at least seem to function, clearly shows they differ and came from a different thought process to fit the game they are in.

[Klone]

It doesn't seem to me like their forcing strategies at all. They just want every class to have a use. It seems like there will be much more room for creativity when it comes to making a strategy. Like kevin said, you will see a wider variety of classes being used by each team, because there is no one class that can do it all. This is what I'm looking forward to. In TFC how often is anything but 4 medics on offense effective at all in a 9v9 match? It gets old. Also, you need to try to not think of teams having seperate offense and defense, since most of the maps will be command point or push maps, a whole team will work as one. And who knows how CTF maps will be played in TF2?

And the respawn delay is not as big a deal as everyone thinks it is. 10 seconds is nothing, shit 9v9 TFC matches would even play better with a 5 second respawn delay.

[Stayne]

Well.... I guess we'll see, won't we Klone? <3 :)

In all honesty, I hope for the best. I'm just lowering my expectations so as not to be too disappointed.

[Killian]

My issue isn't with NEW strats. Read what I said. I'm concerned that they are FORCING the strats. The way they are setting up the game APPEARS to force players to do very specific things. From the sound of things, all a medic can do now is heal his team. The long respawn times will FORCE a medic to be part of the team (unless they want to be dead for half of a match).

It APPEARS that they are forcing strategies. It APPEARS to be a very heavy-handed attempt to FORCE people to play the game they way they envision it.

Compare that to previous versions of TF. The medic could be on D. Medic could stay back and heal. In pubs, medics often did fill that role. Medic wasn't FORCED to do anything. It just so happened that the medic's combined skills made for an extremely good offensive force. So, medics filled that role more often than a support role. But there was no heavy-handedness to it. Either role could be filled. Do you see the difference?

How are you complaining that tf2 is "forcing" strats. If anything, the game we play right now "forces" strats. You rarely see a different kinda d setup on any map vs any clan you play and the offense is basically always the same as well. And u also mention that they are trying to impose a particular way each person is supposed to play. Unless you go to a completely random pub server (which everyone hates right,) a person is expected to play a certain way and gets a ton of shit if they do not. The fact of the matter is, we don't know how the game is going to play and we dont know how WE are going to play it either. As time goes on, people will understand whats effective and what isn't, and they will discover special aspects to the game just like nearly every other multiplayer game ever invented.

[Cobalt]

Effectiveness forces strategy, Stayne.

[Jarek]

My issue isn't with NEW strats. Read what I said. I'm concerned that they are FORCING the strats. The way they are setting up the game APPEARS to force players to do very specific things. From the sound of things, all a medic can do now is heal his team. The long respawn times will FORCE a medic to be part of the team (unless they want to be dead for half of a match).

It APPEARS that they are forcing strategies. It APPEARS to be a very heavy-handed attempt to FORCE people to play the game they way they envision it.

Compare that to previous versions of TF. The medic could be on D. Medic could stay back and heal. In pubs, medics often did fill that role. Medic wasn't FORCED to do anything. It just so happened that the medic's combined skills made for an extremely good offensive force. So, medics filled that role more often than a support role. But there was no heavy-handedness to it. Either role could be filled. Do you see the difference?

i think he is implying that he is the hacker Force aliased

[burnsy]

killian hit the nail on the head.

[Count]

There's another TF2 article in this week's PC gamer, its a hands on article of a guy talking about playing tf2. It has some interesting things on how the games play, but not a whole lot of new things are in it. Maybe somebody can share but i just figured i should post an fyi.

[Stayne]

i think he is implying that he is the hacker Force aliased

was it that obvious? :o


Effectiveness forces strategy, Stayne.
I agree. But so do class limitations. Class limitations are what I've been talking about.

Killian's comments amount to the same thing that cobalt suggested. Seasoned players expect certain things based on their experience in the game. Clan play revolves around how to best use a limited number of players. Putting a medic on a defensive support role has not been a popular choice. Nevertheless, it is a possibility. Whereas the descriptions of TF2 seem to REQUIRE a medic to play a support role. But that isn't the problem. The problem is that the medic appears to be able to fill ONLY a support role.

For the few new abilities that are added, there are many abilities taken away (not always from the same classes). It just feels like the classes are losing some of their general abilities.

To use a metaphor, classes are moving from being generalists (that can do many things) to being specialists (that can do few things). THAT limits strategies. Any given strategy might use more classes, but the use of those classes is more limited.

..... time passes......

After going over the weapons lists posted here (http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200703/N07.0328.1722.34101.htm?Page=1), I think my main complaint is with the new medic. I could be overreacting ;) I hope so.

[trance^E]

im glad the respawns are longer i hate killing someone getting the flag and then they kill be on the way out

+1

perfect example: monkey_l and the T soldier

[trance^E]

* Hmmm... so 2fort bridge is a DM mess.
* Scout (without concs) took a rocket to the face and died (surprise)
* Another lame comment about making medic useful.
* A death cam for those not smart enough to figure out how to look around before clicking their mouse - It's also for those who can't watch death sprites.
* 10-20 second respawn time since watching a game is sooo much fun
* bleh...

* pointless redundant bandwagon complaining about a game you know you are going to buy and play


and i disagree when people say that the TF2 devs are forcing strats... i think they are trying to make this game more of a team game like it was supposed to be.. go into a pub.. do you see anyone playing like a team? no. you see stupid medics jumping into the water on 2fort because they think swimming is teh fun...

as far as the medic is concerned.. hes a MEDIC... what is the definition of a medic? hes supposed to heal people.. more conveniently healing a defensive player who isnt all over the place... do you think valve intended for the medic to be the strongest class in tfc on O and do absolutely no healing? i dont think they did. medic seems like they meant it to be a D class in tfc but didnt realize that they shouldnt have given it grenades

[dys]

I don't see how creating more specialized roles in TF2 somehow miraculously makes pubbers less newbie. If anything the pubs will be even more of a clusterfuck.

go into a pub.. do you see anyone playing like a team? no. you see stupid medics jumping into the water on 2fort because they think swimming is teh fun...
^ I reiterate my point. How is TF2 going to change for the better in those terms? TF2 relies even more on teamplay. TFC pubbers won't even play defense, or as trance said, meds swimming around or engi's building in the respawn etc. TF2 only opens up the door to make pubs LESS fun due to all of that.

The maps that they're talking about sound a lot like warpath, so keep that in mind as you try to coordinate newbies to: have one med healing a scout who then has to go and jump off a demo's pipes to fly halfway across the map to get the document.pdf who then takes it to a different cap point then he had previously. in terms of pubs - ouch.

In CTF terms, once people start knowing what they're doing, 2fort as the example, they'll have had to seriously rework the map (and maybe they did, i don't know) to get that type of game to be any fun.

The game sounds slow to me. It may be fun, I think the teamplay concept is cool, but it seems to be lacking any of the things that gets my blood pumping - that said of course with only having read what's been released, so who knows, I'll still give it a try obviously. In terms of gameplay, Valve has never let me down. The slow releases are annoying, but every game that I've ever played that had the Valve tag on it exceeded my expectations, so I'm hoping this isn't the exception to that rule.

[PHISH]

I'm looking forward to the very different roles each class will fill, its like 9 minigames in one...hopefully :) (Which tfc was, but less defined, less unique)

[C-Aim]

That death cam sounds like garbage as far as snipers are concerned. Say you are on sniper and you find yourself a good spot, the first person you kill is going to be told where you are, and they are going to tell their teammates. So you get one kill before you are ousted, killed, and have to wait 10-20 seconds. Sounds like loads of fun.

[if a player kills you over and over] a little message will pop up saying he's dominating you, and a little icon will appear over his head whenever you see him onscreen.What the hell. So if you are doing well the game handicaps you? That sounds so retarded.

I don't have a problem with any of the other features when I really think about it, but this death cam and revenge thing sounds utterly retarded.

[Stayne]

if a player kills you over and over] a little message will pop up saying he's dominating you, and a little icon will appear over his head whenever you see him onscreen.

What the hell. So if you are doing well the game handicaps you? That sounds so retarded.

They did it for the LOLs

[tyson^cool]

How is an icon only the player getting dominated can see a handicap for the good player? I fail to see your logic.

[puFf]

I look forward to checking this game out. Looks like fun.

Think about what we have now as far as TFC league play/"acceptable" play. No shooting in the middle, Hwguy limits, 4 O vs 5 D, etc etc. To me that's "dictating" game play far more than any class/game play modifications they're showing us in TF2.

Might actually liberate us a bit. Same goes for FF. Cheers to those people too.

[Dospac]

I look forward to checking this game out. Looks like fun.

Think about what we have now as far as TFC league play/"acceptable" play. No shooting in the middle, Hwguy limits, 4 O vs 5 D, etc etc. To me that's "dictating" game play far more than any class/game play modifications they're showing us in TF2.

Might actually liberate us a bit. Same goes for FF. Cheers to those people too.

TFC league play style is just a means of making the game competitive. TFC is broken as a competitive game without the rules the community made along the way. It is Valve's fault for not fixing those things, not the communities for making the game work in competition.

Sure it would be nice to not need the additional regulation, unfortunately it's necessary. It makes the game better. :O

[TheJTrain]

The team is flip-flopping in having actual instant replays to add on to the kill-cam concept, as well, but they didn’t know if that would make it in time for release.

Yeah, gotta make that release date......

[Toastie]

they're really pushing that hw/Medic combo arent they. I think stayne is right when he talks about heavy handedness in strats, with the way they are pusing that combo, it seems like its going to be whichever offense can use it better... rather than an offense who chooses which way to go ABCDE against the defenses ABCDE, its gonna be the medic/HW vs the defenses ABCDE.. and the letter represents a hypothetical number of strategies

I kinda can see what happens though, demo on offense... kill a guy on defense and pipe the resup... blow him up after his 20 seconds and send them into another 20 seconds... any1 wanna challenge these guys and exploit their new game to holy hell

[OhGr]

I agree 100%. I love everything I hear about this game.

The TF2 spy cloaking sounds much better than the FF spy cloaking. I like the idea of a respawn delay too, and I think the sudden death feature sounds awesome. When it goes to sudden death I dont think it will turn into a D vs D thing because I think at that point the map scoring doesn't matter, I think it turns into a deathmatch where the last team alive is the winner of the round. I like that a lot. I also like the idea of most of the maps being push/command point maps. It sounds like Well will play a lot like scrummage.

Also I laughed at the comment about medics finally being useful, but I know what he meant. What he should have said was "Finally, medics are doing what they were intended to do!"

Oh no! You mean the game will be friendly to new players? That's a terrible idea!

have my babies.

[jumbok]

the medic/hw thing doesn't seem that bad, because anybody who's smart will not even attack the hw until the medic is dead. then the hw can't get healed enough to get his invuln, and those two offenders will have wasted their run.

it seems like one of those techniques that people are so afraid of that we'll have really good counters of it. just like everybody who plays wow is good at fighting rogues because you get attacked by them so much or are so afraid to.

playing on pubs lately, i have to say it might be nice to get rid of the nadespam, though of course i'll miss concs. in the end though, i guarantee you somebody will make a tf2 mod that's just tf2 + concs.

[shaggy]

OK one huge issue i have this mod is the delay respawn. This of course will slow the game trendously. I also hope dustbowl will not be created like dustbowl. Imagine how D normally sets up for dustbowl. Normally most can agree noone should break the D on the first try...It takes a minute or two to push through all that crap. Now I want you to imagine a 20 second respawn timer. Can the O ever leave their respawn against a very well coordinated D? And is this gameplay going to be fun on a map where you are alive less time then you are waiting to spawn in until your O actually breaks through the inital D. Anyways I have my doubts.

[PHISH]

i'm looking forward to piping spawns already :cool:

[Rimuladas]

can the medic heal himself? or will he be the one to kill in order to take out the O/D?

[C-Aim]

How is an icon only the player getting dominated can see a handicap for the good player? I fail to see your logic.

Because if you are a sniper or some ranged class or a spy trying to hide and the guy happens to look in your general direction it gives up your position. The whole thing is counterintuitive to classes that use stealth and hiding spots to be effective.

[Redneck]

Yeah, gotta make that release date......

haha...I'd say it's a little late for the 1999 release date guys!

[puFf]

TFC league play style is just a means of making the game competitive. TFC is broken as a competitive game without the rules the community made along the way. It is Valve's fault for not fixing those things, not the communities for making the game work in competition.

Sure it would be nice to not need the additional regulation, unfortunately it's necessary. It makes the game better. :O

I agree. That's why I've preferred an "organized" game of TFC vs pubbing for quite awhile now. Pretty sure the same thing will happen for TF2 and FF too as far as additional regulation for league play after the games have been played a bit.

Just trying to say lets not be too quick to judge before actually playing the game(s). I realize it's fun to speculate about though. Reading what I wrote again I see it didn't really come across that way. <slaps forehead>

[nautika]

was it confirmed anywhere that the respawn time is 20 seconds or is this all speculation based on the article where the writer said the respawn time they were playing with was between 10-20 seconds...it sounds like a variable that can be set...to possibly 0...

[tyson^cool]

Because if you are a sniper or some ranged class or a spy trying to hide and the guy happens to look in your general direction it gives up your position. The whole thing is counterintuitive to classes that use stealth and hiding spots to be effective.

I can only laugh that you think valve will allow you to see this above a disguised spy's head. Come on man they don't think like this community, but they aren't stupid.

[FlyMoto]

increased respawn sounds horrible
scout sounds next to useless assuming: no bhop and no concs (double jump doesn't replace those two).
medic invulnerability will probably be the basis of attack, making defense HORRIBLE. on the contrary, w/o it offense would be next to impossible in a similar fashion as to now. with a respawn delay, speedy O has no point. they will get killed many more times than the D, and in turn will spend alot of time dead.
demo will be EASY with people unable to conc, with the only real exception being that offense is going to be heavy anyway.
complete invisibility on spy sounds overpowered...
ff keeps sounding better and better.

[C-Aim]

I can only laugh that you think valve will allow you to see this above a disguised spy's head. Come on man they don't think like this community, but they aren't stupid.

*sigh* I didn't say disguised. Spies don't have disguises 100% of the time, sometimes they need to duck down in a corner and hope nobody sees them while they get a disguise. You used to feign but now that they can't do that who knows? Obviously none of us know for sure how it works, but it is at least a problem for snipers from the descriptions.

[Marchy]

Maybe stayne is right in a certain way, i am not saying forcing people to play certain strats is good, but maybe valve realize since they are going strictly DM route, having specific things to do for your teamates will be the only way to get anything done in TF2.

however with that said, who the fuck does that outside of matches in any games?

too me this game sounds like it is too D heavy and too slow. Who knows?
Seriously if there is a 10-20 delay in respawn, it's WAY to long, it's bad enough with those retarded servers that set even a 5 second respawn.

Another thing I have against it, don't @#$%ing call it TF2 if you're going to make mostly A/D, command point maps. AD was a good for a change, but command points (AKA:CZ2) just get boring as hell, back and forth, back and forth....i'd have more fun taking a nap, seriously.

Think I'll wait til it gets CHEAP on ebay or maybe just DL this game, so Valve gets NO support from me, they don't give 2shits about the community, so the feeling will be mutual.

[WiKiD]

i really laugh at all this speculation. i can't believe how in depth people are getting about strategies and who and what is useful/useless. its been said a million times already, YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME YET. the difference between whatever these developers are showcasing and competitive play will be like night and day. guess what, none of us have experienced either aspect of the game so for the love of god STOP.

[northern lights]

i really laugh at all this speculation. i can't believe how in depth people are getting about strategies and who and what is useful/useless. its been said a million times already, YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME YET. the difference between whatever these developers are showcasing and competitive play will be like night and day. guess what, none of us have experienced either aspect of the game so for the love of god STOP.

amen

[Bookrat]

I also hope dustbowl will not be created like dustbowl. Imagine how D normally sets up for dustbowl. Normally most can agree noone should break the D on the first try...It takes a minute or two to push through all that crap. Now I want you to imagine a 20 second respawn timer. Can the O ever leave their respawn against a very well coordinated D?
Yes. A 10-to-20-second respawn timer implemented in isolation would suck for a map like dustbowl.

But it hasn't been implemented in isolation, has it? There's also this whole 'invulnerability' thing that we've heard about. How tough is it going to be to defend that hole against someone who cannot be killed? Now they're through to the other side, now they're picking off your defenders, and now the defenders are the one who are faced with the long respawn and a long trek back to the choke point.

Dospac's comments about the community rules being needed in order to make TFC a competitive game is a good one. As a player, I have always loved maps like scrummage/push/warpath/avanti/run/cz2/etc. These maps not only require real teamwork and communication in order to be successful, but they also strip off many of these artificially imposed rules. No max D rule, because you can't artificially say that X class or X position is defense, but Y class in Y position is offense. No O vs. O restrictions, for the same reasons. Nothing about Yard D, because the whole map is your battlefield.

I realize that not everyone likes these same types of maps, and that it sounds like people who live and die by CTF will probably be disappointed with TF2... but I'm surprised that more people aren't picking up on how perhaps leagues may be able to do away with so many of the 'constricting' rules that people rail against.

[ZZUBYTTIHS]

i'm looking forward to piping spawns already :cool:

LMAO, with a med healing ya....

[Jimyd]

i really laugh at all this speculation. i can't believe how in depth people are getting about strategies and who and what is useful/useless. its been said a million times already, YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME YET. the difference between whatever these developers are showcasing and competitive play will be like night and day. guess what, none of us have experienced either aspect of the game so for the love of god STOP.

I think i know how this game is gonna play out, i said that the first time i played sourceforts before i played the mod. Turned out ym predicition was right.

If everything in these articles is truth, then game will be slower like CS (Top seller game), mixed in with BF2142 silo/command point style, with team classes.

Invulnerability will get sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... abussed the first week TF2 is released. Teams of medics sitting in 2fort spawn just pumping up scouts and having them mad dash through the base defense. Or from water route, etc.

Sniper will dominate this game PEROID.

[Marchy]

honestly another thing that people have vastly overlooked for one reason or another is that they are not only releasing for PC, but for consoles as well.

My point being.....is they probably won't use up extra resources for making the PC version the usual fast pace style that is TFC today, they will slow it down for console versions, while keeping it "fun enough" for PC fans.

They are smart, it will try and attract Counter-Strike type of fans and make it fun enough for console users.

They also want a game where it is very console friendly, for obvious reasons...$$$$, why sell for only the PC market when you can get money from the console saps also.

Enough ranting, the people that say this game will be slowed and dumbed down, will probably be right, if a game like this is up your alley, then go for it.

[MacMaverick]

Has anyone considered that this respawn time and death cam thing might be toggle-able via the console? Hell, is there even a console?

Also, do engy's still have emps? A couple emps should solve this whole HW/Medic thing.

[nex|nicholai]

no emps

[Blashy]

TFC league play style is just a means of making the game competitive. TFC is broken as a competitive game without the rules the community made along the way. It is Valve's fault for not fixing those things, not the communities for making the game work in competition.

Sure it would be nice to not need the additional regulation, unfortunately it's necessary. It makes the game better. :O

I will agree it is their fault for making the HW too powerful.

But the leagues going 9v9 instead of 8v8 is their fault, did anyone EVER think the extra player would go on O... that one was too obvious.

And no potshots in the middle I do not get that, when I played it was free for all in league matches, of course you did not have to face 5 D, only 4.

IMO, for the most part, the leagues gimped the matches more than valve did with the extra player. Craziest idea ever.

[phate]

the only problem i see with the medic is that is sounds like it would be boring as fuck to play medic.

all you do is run around healing people? and the tractor beam healer thing stays locked on? sounds like a fucking blast. obviously havent played it yet, but with the medic's weapons: syringe launcher, medicgun, and bonesaw, it doesnt sound like he'll have much fun.

[Blashy]

the only problem i see with the medic is that is sounds like it would be boring as fuck to play medic.

all you do is run around healing people? and the tractor beam healer thing stays locked on? sounds like a fucking blast. obviously havent played it yet, but with the medic's weapons: syringe launcher, medicgun, and bonesaw, it doesnt sound like he'll have much fun.

Yeah, unless they come up with some sort of "assist" system most people who do not see the "team" gain from it will not play it. Myself, I am awaiting Pyro more than anything but playing medic in a support role if it means my team getting and preventing caps, I would do it.

[Sutterkane]

And no potshots in the middle I do not get that, when I played it was free for all in league matches, of course you did not have to face 5 D, only 4.


you should check out a tfl match sometime.

that said, potshots and chasing do occur from time to time in sta matches, just not near as often as tfl.