Disappointed with TF2

[Pale_Rider]

I'll start off by saying that I'm a die-hard TF fan from way back. I stopped clanning in TFC in 2002 but eagerly anticipated this day ever since. I have long hoped that TF2 would put TF on top the multiplayer heap and gain the recognition it deserves.

In the words of Zorg: I am ... disappointed. Very, very disappointed.

Good:

- The look. Everyone knows this. The game is beautiful.

- The little touches. Each class has its own melee weapon and they're all cleverly done. Around the maps are neat little nuggets of flavor.

- Classes:
----- Scouts take command points twice as fast. Perfect mechanic.
----- I like the engy teleporter. Great mechanic that can easily shift gameplay.
----- The medic gun is spectacular. Just what the medic needed.
----- Spying is pure joy. Cloak-disguise-unloak is a cinch and timer on the cloak seals the deal.


And that's all the good things.

Bad:

- No grenades. Is it less spammy? Perhaps, but in every previous TF each class had its own combination of grenades that made it useful. And in every previous version, people found a way to deal with them.

- No speed control. You just walk everywhere you go. It's slow and unnecessary. Speed control is what separates the good players from the mediocre ones.

- The hit zones, combined with the inherent lack of accuracy, saps all the fun out of close combat. Additionally, the melee weapons are FAR too powerful.

-Classes:
----- Sniper: the secondary gun is too powerful. If you're a sniper and you find yourself in close combat, you've already failed. Your weaponry should reflect that.
----- Soldier: rocket jumping is weak and underpowered. Don't bother.
----- Demo: you can't blow up your sticky grenades until they've stuck into something. So they're practically useless.
----- Heavy: is it just me or is Sasha pretty weak? I found myself up close and personal with a scout who I should be able to reduce to paste in about a nanosecond. Instead, he stood in my line of fire for about two seconds, made it behind me and killed me with 3 swings of his little baseball bat. Have I mentioned that melee weapons are too powerful?
----- Engy: Ah yes. I've now watched hordes of witless noobs get mowed down by a single SG placed out in the open. The invulnerable engy just stood behind it, whacking away all the while. If you take away grenades, you need to make the SG's less powerful or slower to track. Even the spy sapper is worthless against a slightly competent engy.

Abysmal

WHOSE FUCKING BRILLIANT IDEA WAS IT TO HAVE RESPAWN TIMES IN A TF GAME?!?!?!? IT'S TEAM FORTRESS FOR FUCK SAKE. When I step onto my battlements exactly 5 seconds after spawning only to get picked off by a sniper, I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WAIT 20 SECONDS TO SPAWN AGAIN.

[Stayne]

omg, pale_rider!

looong time, bro!

[primer]

i agree with this post

[Nightwish]

i agree with this post

.

[E|mEr-FuD]

thank god i got peggle extreme!!!!

[OhGr]

i agree with this post

LOL

[16Valve]

I totally agree about the melee weapons.

A D scout owned by doing nothing but running around shooting and clubbing people to death. Hard to stop them.

I like the sticky grens. If someone is running towards me, I just aim at my feet, shoot one and det as I retreat. Also you can get very creative with placement.
Places where nobody running will ever see them.

The respawn times are horrible. Should be shorter. Fine, show me who killed me and then let me be on my way again. 3 to 5 seconds would have been fine.

Again, hard to take out an SG without a spy and even then, if he's got his wrench out and is by it, a spy can forget about doing anything to it. The wrench will kill you in a second. Just set up an SG in a corner and stand behind it. The spy won't be able to knife you very well.
Instead of just sapping the SG, it should sabotage it like in FF. The FF guys have it right there.

[Klone]

Again, hard to take out an SG without a spy and even then, if he's got his wrench out and is by it, a spy can forget about doing anything to it. The wrench will kill you in a second. Just set up an SG in a corner and stand behind it. The spy won't be able to knife you very well.
Instead of just sapping the SG, it should sabotage it like in FF. The FF guys have it right there.

While the SG has the sapper on it, it can't shoot you, so just put the sapper on, and hit the engineer with the revolver 2 or 3 times. The FF thing is easy to do against a new engineer, but against an engineer who knows what hes doing, you aren't going to get his SG unless you nade/knife him while disguised and give yourself away, or if he is nowhere near his SG.

[Split]

While the SG has the sapper on it, it can't shoot you, so just put the sapper on, and hit the engineer with the revolver 2 or 3 times. The FF thing is easy to do against a new engineer, but against an engineer who knows what hes doing, you aren't going to get his SG unless you nade/knife him while disguised and give yourself away, or if he is nowhere near his SG.

true klone but sg's in FF seem to be ALOT less powerful when it comes to their fire power. You can easily manuver (sp?) around an sg with ease.

[ruker]

Glad I didn't spend $45 for this. Thanks for the report!

[primer]

true klone but sg's in FF seem to be ALOT less powerful when it comes to their fire power. You can easily manuver (sp?) around an sg with ease.

if you are arguing that the firepower of sgs in FF is weak you are mad.

[Split]

if you are arguing that the firepower of sgs in FF is weak you are mad.

It really feels like it.

[Sutterkane]

It is pretty weak. It just tracks faster and locks on from father away. Plus, grenades don't roll when you throw them long distances, so it is very easy for an engineer to sit behind it and clang all day.

[sai]

sup pale, haven't seen ya in a while.

TF2 has a suggestion box; you should paste this to them. they might consider some of it.

[DarthGreg]

Pale Rider! Get on IRC sometime, or IM me: SN DarthGreg.

Much love, good to see you again.

[Pale_Rider]

HOLA FELLAS!! OMG DG!!

Suggestion Box? Where?

[Mikester]

damn that sounds like tf2 sucks. :(

[deadlyseven]

what hes posted is correct. melee weapons are so damn powerful. considering you can kill someone from any gun within 2 shots, its a little un needed. at first i hated the game, then i played it for a while and it was getting fun as a sniper, so i tried as a scout (which by the way are pointless as shit for offense, they die so fast and are barely faster then anything) and then i lost all the fun. the grenade shit is a nice twist at first, you dont have to worry about a stray grenade coming your way, but then it gets TOO easy. you can just sit in a corner as pyro (Whic is EXTREMELY powerful) and toast everything.

[Dr. eXpl0si0n]

lol i must agree to all of the above. especially the peggle extreme comment.. tf2 has shamed TFC... i see no fun whatsoever in playing 5 minutes of this game :(

[Vr_]

people.... the tf2 were playing is BETA.
i think respawn time is a small price to demo this game. after all, most demo games put some sort of 30 second advertisement or wont let you go past a level until you register the game, i can see the same thing with tf2.


becides, since its a public beta theres about 9,872 testers that will submit bugs they find.
thats about 8,842 more people that will be finding bugs in TF2 then in FF.

october 10th is when tf2 will launch and im sure before they do they'll balance it out a bit (and probably take the respawn time out, or unlock the command to remove/edit it.. have you noticed they havent relesed a 'commands' list?)

[sai]

...Suggestion Box? Where?

report bug > suggestions

[Stayne]

I played TF2 for 3 hours.

It feels more like a mix of counter-strike and DoD than it does Team Fortress. It is slow. It is gimmicky. Weapon damage is variable, producing extremely quick deaths sometimes. Too many 1-hit kills. Too much respawn delay (nothing more fun than watching your point get captured while you wait 20 sec to respawn). Fixed fov 75 (wtf is this, halo?).

TF2 will likely have a large following. I can see myself playing it from time to time. It will take me a loooong time to get used to the idea of league-play in that environment. Not saying it won't or can't happen, just that it is such a huge, IMO, regression in Fortress game play.

I knew it was going to happen, but that doesn't make it any less disappointing. I think that I already had my visceral reaction when I read the earlier releases.

/me sighs.

[16Valve]

october 10th is when tf2 will launch and im sure before they do they'll balance it out a bit (and probably take the respawn time out, or unlock the command to remove/edit it.. have you noticed they havent relesed a 'commands' list?)

If there IS a commands list.

Seems like the game was thought of as a console game first and PC game second.
Think about how many buttons there are on a console controller. If you added grenades and everything else a "classic" TF game has, you might not have enough. With PC's, alot of binds are not an issue (generally).

[MoonGuardian]

I don't think is really 'slow'. In maps like cp_granery (that's the one with the three points right, A,B,C, right? I think? anywho) trying to play d demo on cp C is frigging intense. Tossing pipes everywhere, laying my spikes down on the cap point. The respawn timers I think, do a good job of "grouping" the action up. Instead of just one soldier running in every 15seconds, I've got three from one door, a medic-hw combo on another, and I've only got four pipes to toss! This to me, makes it intense.

I think you guys need to group up with TFC friends, get on teamspeak/vent and attempt to play these maps as a team... Today, K}{R did this for. gosh. On and Off all day, and in one instance, we had an etire d layout around cp.B of cp_granery. It was fantastic, coms were flying about, it was fast and instense.

I'm not flying through the air on a conc, but im engrossed in FAR MORE action in TF2 then I am in FF and TFC. In FF its "oh, there is the front door soldier on monkey_l again, 1v1 for a bit... etc... until I get to the flag room" in TF2, im pushing high-side on tc_hydro with a hw infront of me while I juice him up, a demoman tossing pipes at the enemies entrance, till suddenly I see an enemy spy become uncloaked next to me, and the shit hits the fan. The only game play that comes close to this, is TFC ADL. Because of the constant choke points, there is always action around you. Always movement. (the above does not work when comparing ctf_2fort due to it's nature).

Okay, I'll give it to you that your own player's movement is slow, walking, etc. But I move just enough to be able to side step from a rocket (rockets are slower), I mean. The game is just slowed down a bit more, everywhere.
God, im rambling. It's late, I've played like 6+ hours of TF2 today, bleh.

[Stayne]

Okay, I'll give it to you that your own player's movement is slow, walking, etc. But I move just enough to be able to side step from a rocket (rockets are slower), I mean. The game is just slowed down a bit more, everywhere.

Took a long meander to agree with me lol. And yes, the game is a lot slowed down everywhere.

I'm not saying it can't be fun. I'm saying that its gonna take ME a lot to get used to it... and I'm not sure I will ever really enjoy it. It just feels like CS + DoD + Halo + (TFC x 0.5). Not a winning combination for my taste.

[MoonGuardian]

yeah
:rolleyes:
it has grown on me, but ill be honest. when it comes to me going back to having a TFC match again. good god, I bet I forget how to toss a nade, or bhop. THe game will be too fast for me. I've grown into the speed of it, probably will happen to most. (or you'll make it fast for yourself, quicken your sensitivity, etc)

[ODAY]

i say the TFC community hires assasains and creates a hit list to take out all the TF2 devs and there faimlys so no one could ever reproduce sucha stupid fucking shithole again

[__Mad]

i say the TFC community hires assasains and creates a hit list to take out all the TF2 devs and there faimlys so no one could ever reproduce sucha stupid fucking shithole again

You're an idiot.

[ruker]

No, he's a moron. Idiots can't be held accountable for their actions.

[hate]

I thought when I bought HL2 this would be included that is why I got some premium package. I have to pay 45 bucks?

[sw_vile]

No, he's a moron. Idiots can't be held accountable for their actions.

qftw!

Hi moon!!
Hi Stayne!!
<33

[VeeKaChu]

I thought when I bought HL2 this would be included that is why I got some premium package. I have to pay 45 bucks?No. You can get it by pre-ordering Teh Orange Box for 45$ (a 5$ savings off the release price). That gets you TF2 (and beta play now), HL2E2, Portal and Peggle Extreme as a nifty bonus.

EDIT- oh wait I see what you're saying. You think that you should get TF2 now because you bought HL2 two years ago... don't think that TF2 was ever in that bargain.

[kuku]

i like it

[NemesisMMi]

I like it a lot.

Someone said scout's are worthless on O but I have to disagree. Their shotgun is lethal at close range, and with their supreme manuerverability (sp), they can take out an HW guy with some skill (and a bit of luck).

I am really enjoying this game thus far. Surprisingly, the least favorite map for me is 2fort. Go figure, its the one I wanted to play the most too.

[5p`]

honestly, after reading moon's post... i started thinking about what TFC league play has become.


offensively, you try to avoid combat. i remember the older days of TFC when the offense would DM much more than conc, but the gameplay has shifted from a brute force attack to a finesse attack... and i agree... sometimes it isn't as fun.


anyway, that's really just a sidenote... not so much making a point

[Jackal_]

Well its a new game so expect new things i suppose. That being said...

The game is somewhat enjoyable for me. It looks gorgeous, is somewhat humorous, and most importantly its NEW. I loaded up the game and got lost on the first map i played. I haven't had that experience with a TF game is probably 5 years. That alone made it fun for me. Whats going to happen, at least with me, is that once i learn the maps, the choke points, etc, the game just won't be fun anymore, for the following reasons.

1.) It's slow. Yes this might be because I'm used to the feel of tfc, but my point remains. You walk in straight lines and it feels like it takes an hour to get anywhere on the map. There are no options for advanced movement other than rocketjumping and the scout's double jump. The double jump does next to nothing and the rocketjumping is mediocre at best.

2.) The gameplay as it is, is suitable only for CP style maps. I played dustbowl and had a blast. I played 2fort and wanted to commit ritual suicide. This is related to the movement aspect.

3.) Respawn timers. Seriously, what the hell were they thinking.

4.) Weapon changes. I'll group this as one category.
The soldier's rpg fires way too damn slow now. Unless you are shooting at a fixed position or someone 3 feet in front of you, you need premonition or just straight luck to get a hit.
Removal of grenades scratches me the wrong way, but im willing to overlook it. However, if you remove grenades its just peeling away another level of depth and skill. Also makes SGs a bitch to kill in some locations if you aren't a spy, but i understand this is TF and you need to work with your team.
Melee weapons are rather absurd, need i say more?


There are things im leaving out and trains of thought that i could keep going on about, but i just don't feel like it. This game is fun, but it won't stay that way in its current state. This might sound pretentious, but it feels to me like they took tfc and just removed everything that required skill. The only reason its fun right now for me is that its new, and something to learn. The lack of map creation and invention is what made tfc begin to feel boring for me. It's also one of the reasons i have played more TF2 than FF at this point, since 75% of FF maps are from tfc. Just my two cents, but i think the novelty of it will wear off inside of a month.

[Vr_]

dont know if anyones noticed or not but i think the tf2 were playing has xbox code in it. you can plug in your xbox controler and still be able to play the game without the mouse/keyboard.
so i dont think were playing the full version.
respawn times will probably be taken away, or at least im sure they'll add a command for admins to change it.
i think the game is great, but like everyone is saying the respawn time is kind of a joke that it being 15-20 seconds long kind of kills it. but im sure valve will put the command in the end beta release and balance out classes a bit.

[GhOsT]

I'm pretty sure there already is a command to change the respawn time. I personally don't think eliminating it completely is a good idea given the gameplay. However, I think something like 5-10 seconds would be good.

[killu`]

i agree with this post

100%

on to FF

if that fails I'll quit gaming entirely, lol.

[Pale_Rider]

I've posted my final Beta review (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6723568#post6723568) in the Steam forums. Have a look if you're interested. :)

[caedere]

In the land of snails, the tortoise is king.This sentence made me laugh :p

Good review, I don't necessarily agree with you on a lot of the things but that's okay. Sorry to see you didn't enjoy the game...my friends and I are having a blast.

[Vr_]

I've posted my final Beta review (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6723568#post6723568) in the Steam forums. Have a look if you're interested. :)

if its anything like your first 24 hour review of the game, no im not.


edit: seems like it is. but at least you put the word "beta" in it, so i read. pretty much the same thing you posted here. respawn time. rockets. no nades. how much FF rocks and 'watch out valve'... which was pretty funny. anyways, the replys were good also.

A "final" review? 2 days into the beta? Rofl. -iGaming | Chaos
I'm assuming that someone will make a mod soon after release for TF2 that turns it into the TFC clone that all the haters seem to be wishing for. -dronf (yeah, its called FF)
Good review, I have yet to play the game, but I will soon enough. I suppose i'll find out if I like it or not since i'm buying it anyway. I'm sure valve will fix a good amount of these problems that you pointed out. Most everyone seems to agree with them all. It is a beta after all, and I think that is the reason they are having the beta, so when the REAL flock of players come in, TF2 is at it's best, not it's worst. Then no doubt people will start modding tf2, and add in grenades and stuff. Games do get better over time. -cubemario
Same feeling I have - respawn timers while slightly annoying serve a purpose. No more loser defense. It's been two days give it more time. Figure out a counter to every class. -Klaus9000
A "final" review? 2 days into the beta? Rofl. quoted for truth -fenz


and lastly: a post someone finally hit the nail in:
>> clickie << (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6724619&postcount=53)
(CQB = close quarter battle)

[}tHoL{-Bout2plucku]

and lastly: a post someone finally hit the nail in:
>> clickie << (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6724619&postcount=53)
(CQB = close quarter battle)
raped...

[Jackal_]

raped...

Wow. I'm actually quite impressed by that.

[Pale_Rider]

Amazing. :/ I had a lot of good things to say in that review, but if it seemed to you that the bad outweighed the good, it's because that's how I feel about TF2. It's entirely based on opinion. I tried to provide as much justification as I felt warranted, even giving links to some relevant sites.

Vr, your "nail in the coffin" hero did nothing but tell me what a horrible player I am because I have these observations. :( Obviously I must feel the way I do because my play is flawed, not the game itself. And that may be true, but it doesn't change my perception. (I did start off by saying what a big TF fan I am, and that I used to play competitively, but oh well.) Further, since it's my review, my perceptions are going to tell the story. There's nothing I can do about that.

I posted 2 reviews: one was an initial impression and it should be obvious that I was pretty upset with the changes made to my beloved franchise. The second was after a good deal of playing the game. I figure if you don't have a good feel for a game after 7 hours of playing it, you're just not getting it. (Bear in mind how long it takes to beat most FPS's these days.) So was my review hasty? Maybe. But it's far more of a chance than most people are going to give a game.

[Vr_]

youre not a horrible player at all so dont even think that. its just that tf2 is wayyyyy dif then tfc and ff.
tf2 is more team based. believe me i learned the hard way and got really frustrated with the game in the first hour and actually wanted to play ff. thats because i LOVE charging in and taking things down and killing people then respawning in a flash but in tf2 that would suck because how is someone going to advance or be able to defend. i agree that the respawn time is way too long but im almost positive there will be a server command for this. but it seems that most of the servers ive played on so far people know the team concept of the game and for the most part 90% of the people are working together. sg's are being taken down together, defense/offense are advancing. its pretty cool to lean on your team a bit to complete the objective. tfc really lost that a long time ago or else there wouldnt be as many forfeits. maybe more the 4-5 good teams too. it sucks without grenades sure, but give it a chance.
for me ive been waiting 9 years for this game to come out also. its a little cartoonish sure... but its more of a adult-swim cartoonish then a PBS cartoonish and im cool with that. im still going to play tfc and ff but tf2 totaly rocks my socks. sorry if i came out the wrong way i didnt mean for it to sound like that but after two days of playing for me ive had a really fun time.

[AKA-KK]

PALE... I'm going to have to agree with everything you have said.

And add
TFC 10/10
FF 9/10
TF2 4/10

CS (both) 7/10
Hidden 7/10

Peggle 5/10

Even my brother in law who has played alot of fps (not very much tfc though) said this game was a turd.

[rizzo]

If tfc was 10/10....

FF as replacement 5/10
TF2 as replacement 0/10

TF2 as totally new game 8.5/10
I cant think FF as a new game, apparently :mad:

[Tone-Loc]

youre not a horrible player at all so dont even think that. its just that tf2 is wayyyyy dif then tfc and ff.
tf2 is more team based. believe me i learned the hard way and got really frustrated with the game in the first hour and actually wanted to play ff. thats because i LOVE charging in and taking things down and killing people then respawning in a flash but in tf2 that would suck because how is someone going to advance or be able to defend. i agree that the respawn time is way too long but im almost positive there will be a server command for this. but it seems that most of the servers ive played on so far people know the team concept of the game and for the most part 90% of the people are working together. sg's are being taken down together, defense/offense are advancing. its pretty cool to lean on your team a bit to complete the objective. tfc really lost that a long time ago or else there wouldnt be as many forfeits. maybe more the 4-5 good teams too. it sucks without grenades sure, but give it a chance.
for me ive been waiting 9 years for this game to come out also. its a little cartoonish sure... but its more of a adult-swim cartoonish then a PBS cartoonish and im cool with that. im still going to play tfc and ff but tf2 totaly rocks my socks. sorry if i came out the wrong way i didnt mean for it to sound like that but after two days of playing for me ive had a really fun time.



Q .... F .... T

[Sutterkane]

I laughed at 10/10 for tfc. How many bugs and exploits were(are) in that game?

[Mikester]

not enough.

[Pale_Rider]

It absolutely is a different game. It seems to me the last people Valve would want to alienate would be the existing TF fanbase since that's who's kept it alive for, what, over a decade now?

Team Fortress has never been released as its own stand-alone title. Always as mods, almost always created by fans. The community has made Team Fortress what it is. To depart so dramatically from what has always been true to the franchise strikes me as a major blunder.

But I suppose time will tell. Give it 6 months, maybe some patches, and see who comes out on top. I'll still have TF2 because, well, I've already bought it and it came with Ep2 and Portal.

[Klone]

Guys this game can't be any good, EVEN MY BROTHER IN LAW thinks its crap, and he knows everything about first person shooters.

[Dave]

I think it's funny as hell that some of you clowns think you're the keepers of the TFC secret flame. Just for the official record, Valve doesn't give jack shit about this "community", and what you want TF2 to be is of no concern to anyone else on the planet.
Also, try to remember that EVERYTHING you boy's think TFC has to have to be a success, are the same things Valve removed from the game, ever wonder why that is? Ever wonder why no one at valve came to the Mecca of TFC game play to find out how to do it right? Do you really think Valve spent years developing a game without thinking about it a little bit?

[Pale_Rider]

Wow Dave, I didn't know you had access to the official record! You are da uber-1337!! I didn't know you were personally aquainted with the folks at Valve and that they'd intimated their rather strong feelings about our community to you and you alone. Boy I sure wish I had just consulted you on this matter prior to voicing my opinion about TF2. You could have changed....well nothing. Nevermind.

[Dave]

I think you misunderstand me. I never claimed to know more about TFC or TF2 than anyone else. But you do need to know something about me, I can read, and more importantly than just being able to read, I actually do it. So what I did was read most of the stuff that has come out of Valve, the interviews with the fellows who developed TF2 were the most valuable source of information. They are the people who said nades and concs were a problem, they were the guy's that decided that there would be no bhop. In all the reading I did, I never once saw clans or league play mentioned, not once. I also never once saw anyone from valve come in here and post a question about game play. So that's where my views come from.
Sorry if you don't like any of that, but to be honest, I got tired of so many people around here proclaiming that clans are the heart and soul TFC, it isn't true, and it never was. Pubs are where the future of TF2 will be decided, pubs are where 99.9% of the games will be played, pubs and Joe noob are are what TF2 is all about, and that's as it should be. Some of those guys will get very good at TF2, and go looking for more of a challenge, that's where clans enter the picture.

[hames]

Wow Dave, I didn't know you had access to the official record! You are da uber-1337!! I didn't know you were personally aquainted with the folks at Valve and that they'd intimated their rather strong feelings about our community to you and you alone. Boy I sure wish I had just consulted you on this matter prior to voicing my opinion about TF2. You could have changed....well nothing. Nevermind.

You can get a lot of good information by listening to the developer commentary in TF2.

[rizzo]

sutterfag i said IF tfc was 10/10, YOU GET THE IDEA? (maybe)

[Sutterkane]

sutterfag i said IF tfc was 10/10, YOU GET THE IDEA? (maybe)
or maybe you don't get the idea that I was going off of what KK said two posts above you, just like you did in your post.

Dumbfuck.

PALE... I'm going to have to agree with everything you have said.

And add
TFC 10/10
FF 9/10
TF2 4/10

[rizzo]

maybe say it then fuckface

[Paddyjack]

While I agree with most negative comments presented here (respawn timers, lack of grenades, etc), I recognized this is a beta. As many others, I believe some of these issues will be fixed in future versions.

Now, this said, I find a little funny all these comparisons between TFC and TF2. This is typical and predictable from a long standing community. I'm an old gamer (38y.o), so I first started TF by playing the original Quake TF in the 90s, and when TFC was out, I could read similar comments (albeit not the same issues) from the original QTF community who didn't want their sacred game changed one bit. We all adapted in the end. Those who didn't perished with QTF.

Same will happen here.

[GhOsT]

It's amazing how history likes to repeat itself...only this time instead of TFC most of the new people are flocking to TF2 and instead of Q3F most of the current TFC community is going to FF.

It'll be interesting to see if history continues to repeat itself in the coming months and years.

[AO`]

While I agree with most negative comments presented here (respawn timers, lack of grenades, etc), I recognized this is a beta. As many others, I believe some of these issues will be fixed in future versions.

Now, this said, I find a little funny all these comparisons between TFC and TF2. This is typical and predictable from a long standing community. I'm an old gamer (38y.o), so I first started TF by playing the original Quake TF in the 90s, and when TFC was out, I could read similar comments (albeit not the same issues) from the original QTF community who didn't want their sacred game changed one bit. We all adapted in the end. Those who didn't perished with QTF.

Same will happen here.

Some things may very well change, but I'm fairly certain TF2 will never have grenades.


It's amazing how history likes to repeat itself...only this time instead of TFC most of the new people are flocking to TF2 and instead of Q3F most of the current TFC community is going to FF.

It'll be interesting to see if history continues to repeat itself in the coming months and years.

I don't think most TFC players are moving on to FF. Most of the guys that I play TFC with are currently playing TF2 exclusively and have no intention of playing FF (even if the current bugs are fixed). I happen to like both games, but I honestly am having as much fun in TF2 now as I had eight years ago when I started playing TFC--the same can't be said about FF. In the end, when I come home from class, I find myself clicking my TF2 shortcut not the FF one. In fact, I don't think I've played FF once since TF2 came out, and again, I'm not an FF hater because I honestly feel that it's a decent mod.

[AGT-King]

You people are hopeless, have fun playing TFC by yourselves.

[Janus]

Does TF2 have something goin for it? Yes, they have a large influx of players (many of whom may have never played a TF game before).

I personally cannot stand a few parts of TF2. I have been told that the respawn timer is dependant on how well your team is doing... I had a 20 second respawn time from 0-0 to 2-0 (our lead). It is just so annoying to be on offense, get sniped off of the battlements and have to wait for almost half of a minute to do it again. Once the respawn time goes by the wayside I can see myself enjoying the game more.

A couple other problems I have found: taking down SGs can be a bit more difficult, and almost impossible if the engi is sitting behind it wrenching it because of the lack of grenades.

I also do not understand how I can shoot a scout 5 or 6 times with the shotgun (and seeing blood fly) to then be shot by the scound (as a soldier) 2 or 3 times and be killed, it is infuriating.

[SteelValor]

Does TF2 have something goin for it? Yes, they have a large influx of players (many of whom may have never played a TF game before).

I personally cannot stand a few parts of TF2. I have been told that the respawn timer is dependant on how well your team is doing... I had a 20 second respawn time from 0-0 to 2-0 (our lead). It is just so annoying to be on offense, get sniped off of the battlements and have to wait for almost half of a minute to do it again. Once the respawn time goes by the wayside I can see myself enjoying the game more.

A couple other problems I have found: taking down SGs can be a bit more difficult, and almost impossible if the engi is sitting behind it wrenching it because of the lack of grenades.

I also do not understand how I can shoot a scout 5 or 6 times with the shotgun (and seeing blood fly) to then be shot by the scound (as a soldier) 2 or 3 times and be killed, it is infuriating.

I agree. I finally played it last night and had my ass handed to me by a scout. I was playing HWGuy.

So I haven't paid much attention but what TF2 lacks is...
grens
armor
suitable respawn timer
easy to kill scouts

the things I like are...
critical hits (if they do anything)
class stats
nice graphics
LOL audio
a fresh but sometimes confusing version of the old maps

[Tone-Loc]

Might want to log a bug, SV. you're stats aren't really recording...

http://steamcommunity.com/id/steelvalor/stats/TF2

[Pale_Rider]

I've now logged around 20 hours. (In my final review, I had around 7. I now have 8 as spy alone.)

My opinions have not changed.

[schwaBAM]

Might want to log a bug, SV. you're stats aren't really recording...

http://steamcommunity.com/id/steelvalor/stats/TF2

your

[M.Karnage]

I'm getting less and less inclined to go buy TF2 from reading this thread.... TF2 sounds like a "dumbed down" version of TFC. I imagine that if you polled a hundred random TFC pub newbies about what they wanted for TF2, they would produce something similar to what I'm hearing.

Slow movement? No nades? I don't see myself ever getting used to these changes. Movement is what made TFC... concs and rocket jumps were a big part of it... please tell me you can at least still strafe jump in TF2.

The first time I saw a "trailer" for TF2, I immediately thought that it looked very flashy and gimmicky... looks like I was right.

[Sutterkane]

karn it basically comes down to if you like other games or not.

if you're obsessed with tfc to the point that you feel no other game will be good enough, then tf2 probably isnt' for you.

[M.Karnage]

Also, for the people who are saying that Valve developed TF2 for the masses, I find this very disheartening. Team Fortress has always struck me as a small market niche game... I used to feel a sense of pride when the masses were all playing CS and I was focusing on a game which I felt had more depth and playability. I can't blame Valve for marketing its game to the most profitable crowd...but it sure sucks for the true fans of the genre.

Edit: Sutter, I'm definitely not obsessed with TFC, as I have been pretty much inactive for years. I just feel like they focused much harder on making TF2 "cool" than they did on making it a forward progression of its predecessor.

[northern lights]

2fort just sucks, the other maps, especially hydro, play out really well, and the gameplay is by no means slow. Sure you aren't going to do 83 runs as a scout in 30 minutes like TFC, but if you carefully plan and work together with your team mates, a single run can be far more effective then doing 10 runs dying at the door, then making it in 1 time like in TFC

[CR0C0DILE]

- No speed control. You just walk everywhere you go. It's slow and unnecessary. Speed control is what separates the good players from the mediocre ones.
b]
for the first several tfc years every player just walked everywhere and it worked fine. what you may want to consider is that you dont know what people will be doing for tricks down the road, just like in hl2dm 2 years after release, q4 two years after release, hldm, quake 3, quake 2, quake 1, painkiller, tfc etc etc, each of the games took time for innovators like me to develop skills in that followers like you could learn to emulate. Now you're probably wondering how I, not knowing you, can classify you as such. It's the attitude followers have. My attitude says " Man I can't wait to discover the new tricks in this game" and your attitude says " fuck bunnyhopping doesnt work like tfc this game is slow" =D

[M.Karnage]

If I wanted to play a "new" game, I would have done so long time ago. I didn't have to wait 8 years until a completely different version of TFC came out, a sequel that looks entirely opposite of everything TFC was (fast, spammy, and conc-alicious).

Like Pale_Rider, I guess I was just expecting TF2 to be like TFC. I don't think that's a very unreasonable expectation.

[Tone-Loc]

your


,,|,, to you, Pidgy... :p

[polarity]

2fort just sucks, the other maps, especially hydro, play out really well, and the gameplay is by no means slow. Sure you aren't going to do 83 runs as a scout in 30 minutes like TFC, but if you carefully plan and work together with your team mates, a single run can be far more effective then doing 10 runs dying at the door, then making it in 1 time like in TFC

I live for coast-to-coasts... guess I'm sticking with FF.

[killu`]

I can't understand how anybody who was good at TFC and enjoyed playing it could like playing TF2. The only skill it requires is point and shooting just like CS..real fun..

[MoonGuardian]

I can't understand how anybody who was good at TFC and enjoyed playing it could like playing TF2. The only skill it requires is point and shooting just like CS..real fun..

you sir are nieve.

I would love to see a bunch of people running around like CS play TF2. Clearly you haven't given it a try.

It doesn't have bhop (thank god), maybe it can drain out of the elite players that depend on their own skill, rather then team work to be successful.

[Prizzo]

Am I the only one that thinks the sg's are fine? I can take them down easy as a soldier with an engy behind them and have done it with the med using that damn syringe gun. Also kevin I totally agree 2fort does suck, whats funny about this is that was the map I was looking forward to because it was the only one with capture the flag elements. I used to hate a/d maps but now im totally in love with them because tf2 pulls them off to a fucking tee.
Also the scout comment... one rocket still throws a scout up in the air and then another finishes him off....AIM AT THE FEET, SAME THING...

[Stratic-]

So far its been mentioned that in TF2 :

- No Nades No Concs

- Rocketjumping is not worth doing more then once or twice

- melee weapons are too powerful

- No Bunnyhoping

- No Ramp Slides

- Players die way too fast

- lol wtf and a is it true that theres a 20 sec respawn time ? :confused:



Ill buy tf2 and play it for a couple of hours but thats about it.

If u like TFC then play Fortress-Forever.

The gameplay seems alot more like DoD:S then TFC


youtube TF2 Gameplay (http://www.youtube.com/results?search=related&search_query=team%20fortress%202%20tf2%20teamfortr ess%20gameplay%20game%20play&v=SjPzrPCuWuM)


Fortress-Forever > TF2
Spread the Word

[Spent]

- lol wtf and a is it true that theres a 20 sec respawn time ? :confused:



There is a, as of yet unlocked, server cvar that changes the respawn time AFAIK.

Many servers, I'm sure, will reduce if not eliminate the respawn time all together assuming that Valve unlocks it at release.

I for one would like to see a 5-10s spawn time on well and granary, and pretty much eliminate it on every other map.

[Stayne]

according to the commentaries, the respawn delay changed depending on the active capture point. The winning team gets faster respawn and closer respawn locations. The losing team has longer respawn delay.

delays are variable even when the same point is active. I have yet to really pick up on any consistent reason for the delay length. What I'm trying to say is, I don't know whether respawn delay is server controlled or map controlled.

[Spent]

according to the commentaries, the respawn delay changed depending on the active capture point. The winning team gets faster respawn and closer respawn locations. The losing team has longer respawn delay.

delays are variable even when the same point is active. I have yet to really pick up on any consistent reason for the delay length. What I'm trying to say is, I don't know whether respawn delay is server controlled or map controlled.

According to this post, http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6717513&postcount=18 (and I've seen this elsewhere) mp_respawnwavetime is the cvar that controlls respawn time.

Assuming thats true, and Valve unlocks it, we should be able to control the spawn time to some extent(hopefully) in the future.

Then again, they took the FF command out so who knows.

[Stratic-]

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6717513&postcount=18



Here our the ones i found, not sure if they all work though, only got linux server, and that aint out yet !!!! (HINT DEVS)

mp_capstyle (Sets the style of capture points used. 0 = Fixed players required to cap. 1 = More players cap faster, but longer cap times)
mp_respawnwavetime (Time between respawn waves)
mp_capdeteriorate_time 90.0 (Time it takes for a full capture point to deteriorate)
mp_teams_unbalance_limit (Teams are unbalanced when one team has this many more players than the other team. (0 disables check))
mp_bonusroundtime (Time after round win until round restarts)
mp_winlimit (Max number of rounds one team can win before server changes maps)
mp_stalemate_timelimit (Timelimit (in seconds) of the stalemate round.)
mp_switchteams (Switch teams and restart the game)
mp_scrambleteams (Scramble the teams and restart the game)
mp_forcerespawnplayers (Force all players to respawn.)


nice commands
still crappy gameplay :mad:

[GhOsT]

If I wanted to play a "new" game, I would have done so long time ago. I didn't have to wait 8 years until a completely different version of TFC came out, a sequel that looks entirely opposite of everything TFC was (fast, spammy, and conc-alicious).

Like Pale_Rider, I guess I was just expecting TF2 to be like TFC. I don't think that's a very unreasonable expectation.
I'm really not sure why anyone would think that TF2 would almost exactly like TFC since 9 years ago it was supposed to be even more different and nothing like TF at all. That, and this is a sequal of TF, not TFC. At least with this version the original 9 classes are back with a lot of familiar elements.

[CR0C0DILE]

you sir are nieve.

I would love to see a bunch of people running around like CS play TF2. Clearly you haven't given it a try.

It doesn't have bhop (thank god), maybe it can drain out of the elite players that depend on their own skill, rather then team work to be successful.the game does have bunnyhop though and it worked very similarly to tfc except it doesnt have the amount of air accel tfc does. it is possible to use the bunnyhop movements and without using forward key at all, move through the maps just as fast as running. but that is right now giving no speed advantage but it does make you harder to shoot. now the only question is , is there a trick waiting to be discovered that can accelerate you faster, and I think it is likely that there is one. remember it was like 4 years before anyone bunnyhopped in tfc and it took someone to learn how to do it in quake 1, 6 years into the game, and then come over and try it in tfc and find it worked and then go around telling people a bout it. I dont know who that first person to do it was but I was one of the first people he showed and it took me about 6 weeks to figure it out and I was one of the first ten or so people to do so, in the whole community. within a month of learning to bhop i had tricks developed on maps for match play where I could grenade jump into a bunnyhop and boost with rockets and be moving so fast that a sentry placed outside could not even detect me flying by. the game was broken.
bunnyhop was not intended for tfc and the way it is now with the rate cap is a reaction on valve's part to fix the game being broken by bunnyhop and i can tell you without any doubt that the games class balance was completely broken by bunnyhopping originally because a soldier could move so fast that you could not even see him all across the map. there is still tricks to be found in tf2 but if valve did it right, not enough to completely bork the game like what happened in tfc.

[benjpac]

Hmmm some of you aren't considering why valve has made the changes they did in this game. TFC was pretty spammy, and it resulted in random killing and just straight up chaos in certain situations. I believe valve saw this as a problem, so they removed grenades. They also said that giving the primary grenade to every class made all the classes too similar (hence why you could run a successful 4 medic offense). However, you still die in about the same time even without grenades because of the removal of armor.

Concerning the removing of concing and bunnyhopping (I always considered bunnyhopping retarded). We don't need concs because the distance needed to travel is shorter. A scout can double jump on the bridge roof on 2fort and get to the basement in roughly the same time as in TFC.. The medic can't because the class has been reworked completely so it isn't comparable.

I think most of us can agree that the spy, medic, and engineer are all much more fun to play compared to their tfc counterpart. Dispensers are more useful because they heal and teleporters help compensate for the slower game play. Medics actually heal. Spies are about 10x more fun than in TFC due to the sapper, sweet ass pistol, and cloaking. All of these factors contribute to the whole idea that TF2 does in fact, take more teamwork. Never have I seen a TFC pub work together like I see in TF2... I can only imagine how much coordination will be taking place in league play.

With that said... If you still want to play a game exactly like TFC then go play FF (which is literally 95% the same game). However, if you look at steamstats you'll notice most of us are actually enjoying TF2 a lot more.

- crims

[sPloOsH]

the game does have bunnyhop though and it worked very similarly to tfc except it doesnt have the amount of air accel tfc does. it is possible to use the bunnyhop movements and without using forward key at all, move through the maps just as fast as running. but that is right now giving no speed advantage but it does make you harder to shoot. now the only question is , is there a trick waiting to be discovered that can accelerate you faster, and I think it is likely that there is one. remember it was like 4 years before anyone bunnyhopped in tfc and it took someone to learn how to do it in quake 1, 6 years into the game, and then come over and try it in tfc and find it worked and then go around telling people a bout it. I dont know who that first person to do it was but I was one of the first people he showed and it took me about 6 weeks to figure it out and I was one of the first ten or so people to do so, in the whole community. within a month of learning to bhop i had tricks developed on maps for match play where I could grenade jump into a bunnyhop and boost with rockets and be moving so fast that a sentry placed outside could not even detect me flying by. the game was broken.
bunnyhop was not intended for tfc and the way it is now with the rate cap is a reaction on valve's part to fix the game being broken by bunnyhop and i can tell you without any doubt that the games class balance was completely broken by bunnyhopping originally because a soldier could move so fast that you could not even see him all across the map. there is still tricks to be found in tf2 but if valve did it right, not enough to completely bork the game like what happened in tfc.

......? Gore invented the internet too....

First people to bhop were euro's like Defrag, they showed us, later the_ROCK and gup20 took it up... i learned from CNBL-Gup20.

I have no idea who you are croc.... got another name?

I remember cuz i was there.

[5p`]

uh oh, time for everyone to whip out their e-peens and compare them in a fight for intraweb supremacy.

[lastshooter]

Face it, TF2 was meant for console and 9 year olds.We here, are hard core gamers, and this game was not meant for us. No one in this community will last playing it, due to a flat out boring pace. Sure its all shiny and new with lots of pubbers. But once the bordem sets in, so will reality. I played a total of 4 hours, and can not stand the game.
How can you force team work on pre-puberty jerk offs? Bad enough as it was in TFC, this will be ten times worse.
The last few months spent in TFC to me was the best, although there were few servers, they had qualty players that knew the game.
Six months and TF for ages 2 will be dead in the water. Soon as some flashy new console game comes out, gone and forgotten.

[_loche]

stfu

[Spent]

Face it, TF2 was meant for console and 9 year olds.We here, are hard core gamers, and this game was not meant for us. No one in this community will last playing it, due to a flat out boring pace. Sure its all shiny and new with lots of pubbers. But once the bordem sets in, so will reality. I played a total of 4 hours, and can not stand the game.
How can you force team work on pre-puberty jerk offs? Bad enough as it was in TFC, this will be ten times worse.
The last few months spent in TFC to me was the best, although there were few servers, they had qualty players that knew the game.
Six months and TF for ages 2 will be dead in the water. Soon as some flashy new console game comes out, gone and forgotten.

Is there some rule, and I'm just guessing here, that if you're under the age of say, 24, its cool to say TF2 is for kids? Not that I would ever stereotype a age group or a game community or anything of that nature... :rolleyes:

[benjpac]

Face it, TF2 was meant for console and 9 year olds.We here, are hard core gamers, and this game was not meant for us. No one in this community will last playing it, due to a flat out boring pace. Sure its all shiny and new with lots of pubbers. But once the bordem sets in, so will reality. I played a total of 4 hours, and can not stand the game.
How can you force team work on pre-puberty jerk offs? Bad enough as it was in TFC, this will be ten times worse.
The last few months spent in TFC to me was the best, although there were few servers, they had qualty players that knew the game.
Six months and TF for ages 2 will be dead in the water. Soon as some flashy new console game comes out, gone and forgotten.

I'll bet you a million dollars you're wrong.

[CR0C0DILE]

......? Gore invented the internet too....

First people to bhop were euro's like Defrag, they showed us, later the_ROCK and gup20 took it up... i learned from CNBL-Gup20.

I have no idea who you are croc.... got another name?

I remember cuz i was there.uh yeh of course ive been lingering around here without playing tfc for years? why because i was part of tfc right from the start and I played for so long I couldnt ever totally abandon it
even if playing it makes me feel like puking today. if you see me ingame ask. not here. ;)

[CR0C0DILE]

Face it, TF2 was meant for console and 9 year olds.We here, are hard core gamers, and this game was not meant for us. No one in this community will last playing it, due to a flat out boring pace. Sure its all shiny and new with lots of pubbers. But once the bordem sets in, so will reality. I played a total of 4 hours, and can not stand the game.
How can you force team work on pre-puberty jerk offs? Bad enough as it was in TFC, this will be ten times worse.
The last few months spent in TFC to me was the best, although there were few servers, they had qualty players that knew the game.
Six months and TF for ages 2 will be dead in the water. Soon as some flashy new console game comes out, gone and forgotten.well I think there will be a small community in it for some time to come. probably 1000 players or more for the next few years. It will never rival tfc's peak popularity. I remmeber when tfc had 11,000 servers online. At that time just before cs came up tfc was #1 popular game. TF2 will never at any point in time be #1
but it will always have players , at least 100-1000 online every night.
if you wanted the most popular game youd be playing cs which has finally even won out over cs source and every other game. I will play tf2 occasionally but developing real world fighting skills is more interesting to me at this time in my life than video game fighting skills. so i spend more and more tyime training to fight. im like a fucking ninja. =D

[`LiTHiuM]

I have yet to play either game, but after reading this thread I have to say I am completely unexcited about either game.

I'll start off by saying that I completely agree with Karn's post above about TF2 taking a step backwards. Why play a game that is in every aspect less challenging except teamwork? I just don't follow the logic. The thing that made TFC fun for me was the complexity and speed of it (whether intended or not by the developers). If these things didn't matter to me I would have long ago switched to CS or DoD. Being able to consistently practice the game and never being satisfied since there was always something for me to learn. Improving your individual skills and implementing them with your clan in matches is the ultimate reward for me... it makes it comparable to real sports in a way. TF2 seems to be completely lacking in this regard. Yeah yeah, I get it that it's all teamwork now. I get it, I do. But what's the fun in that? The teamwork in TFC came from blending your clans individuals' skills into a viable defensive strategy so that you could all lean on each other. The balance between individual skill and teamwork was obvious. Roughly 3-4 years into my TFC experience I fooled around with Condition Zero for ~2 months. I quickly became one of the more dominant players in my clan, and not long after I abandoned the game. TF2 seems to be too easy to learn in this regard.

As far as FF goes, there's something about both games being released at about the same time that leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Inside I just have a feeling that ultimately FF is going to fail (in the large scheme of things) and the last game I want to be playing is one that has a similar community population to that of TFC in the recent years. The other part of it is that as games get better graphics and better physics, they lose something that TFC had. What that is I can't really say, but I will say that as games become more "real", they just feel dummed down. In TFC, the physics were such that they completely defied conventional logic and reality... it was in a sense it's own virtual world. Being able to escape into such a world for me was fun. I didn't give a damn if it was the most unrealistic gameplay ever - it was fun.

That being said, I can only hope I'm wrong about at least one of the games, because I really, really would like to enjoy one of these games when I have the time to commit to gaming once again. Honestly though, I just don't see that happening, and I have to say it actually saddens me. Perhaps it's finally time to throw in the towel with online first person shooters. I suppose time will tell.

[Volvieras]

Face it, TF2 was meant for console and 9 year olds.We here, are hard core gamers, and this game was not meant for us. No one in this community will last playing it, due to a flat out boring pace. Sure its all shiny and new with lots of pubbers. But once the bordem sets in, so will reality. I played a total of 4 hours, and can not stand the game.
How can you force team work on pre-puberty jerk offs? Bad enough as it was in TFC, this will be ten times worse.
The last few months spent in TFC to me was the best, although there were few servers, they had qualty players that knew the game.
Six months and TF for ages 2 will be dead in the water. Soon as some flashy new console game comes out, gone and forgotten.

Are you serious? I've been trying to really comprehend why people are speaking for me on this and other forums. You're the kind of person who really makes it hard for other venues to take us seriously. Someone from outside this community who plays TF2 is going to come on here and read this, and not want to join it because people like you decided that we're all hardcore gamers and we all think that people who like TF2 must be 9 year olds. News flash, we're competitive gamers not necessarily hard-core gamers. Sure we all loved TFC at one point or another, some of us are upset that TF2 changed so much.. but if you read these forums, you'll see that a lot, and dare I say most, of us are pretty fucking happy with the way things are going. If you go to any other gaming community forum you'll see that players are talking about TF2 at CPL, know how many years it took TFC to get to CPL? Four...and even then only an eighth of the community showed.

You enjoyed the last few months of TFC? There were quality players who knew the game in public servers? If a quality player is measured in terms of the basic skill level of an -nZ or DeX members, then I can understand why you'd feel that way. Personally, I found the last few months to be completely fucking boring. Pub play consisted of all the clanners joining the same team in Twisted 24/7 Dustbowl and beating the shit out of the pubbers there. Going into Jigglypuffs or Drippy's meant playing scout and capping 10 times in a row before dying or playing soldier and going 90-3 before the map ended. Dark Realm had a few decent players but it was all mcxvi and uC guys, with special fatal and decap appearances, who dominated the server.

Bottom line: Most of the people posting in this forum labeled Team Fortress 2 find the game fun, if you don't find it fun then go play TFC or Fortress Forever or neither for all I care. But, goddamn, quit fucking telling other people that I feel the same way that you do about TF2.

[tyson^cool]

Face it, TF2 was meant for console and 9 year olds.We here, are hard core gamers, and this game was not meant for us. No one in this community will last playing it, due to a flat out boring pace. Sure its all shiny and new with lots of pubbers. But once the bordem sets in, so will reality. I played a total of 4 hours, and can not stand the game.
How can you force team work on pre-puberty jerk offs? Bad enough as it was in TFC, this will be ten times worse.
The last few months spent in TFC to me was the best, although there were few servers, they had qualty players that knew the game.
Six months and TF for ages 2 will be dead in the water. Soon as some flashy new console game comes out, gone and forgotten.

http://donpeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/big-lebowski-dude.jpg
Well, thats like your opinion man...

Also I think you don't represent more then, what 11% of the communities opinion anyways? Nice troll attempt however.

[hames]

all you guys knocking both games need to get a grip on reality. a game is a game. you either like it or you dont. i dont like WoW but i dont go around being an ass about it. once you understand that valve does things to make money, then you'll understand tf2. also, if you listened to the devs, you'll see their reasons for doing what they did.

take it or leave it. beggars can't be choosers and be thankful you at least have another option.

finally, tf2 has some depth, it is just a different kind.

[advocate]

youre not a horrible player at all so dont even think that. its just that tf2 is wayyyyy dif then tfc and ff.
tf2 is more team based. believe me i learned the hard way and got really frustrated with the game in the first hour and actually wanted to play ff. thats because i LOVE charging in and taking things down and killing people then respawning in a flash but in tf2 that would suck because how is someone going to advance or be able to defend. i agree that the respawn time is way too long but im almost positive there will be a server command for this. but it seems that most of the servers ive played on so far people know the team concept of the game and for the most part 90% of the people are working together. sg's are being taken down together, defense/offense are advancing. its pretty cool to lean on your team a bit to complete the objective. tfc really lost that a long time ago or else there wouldnt be as many forfeits. maybe more the 4-5 good teams too. it sucks without grenades sure, but give it a chance.
for me ive been waiting 9 years for this game to come out also. its a little cartoonish sure... but its more of a adult-swim cartoonish then a PBS cartoonish and im cool with that. im still going to play tfc and ff but tf2 totaly rocks my socks. sorry if i came out the wrong way i didnt mean for it to sound like that but after two days of playing for me ive had a really fun time.

going with tone-loc here and quoting this. my initial fear of a new reality sent me running in fear back to my comfort zone (FF). But when i finally realized that this game cannot, from a design standpoint, ever be comparable to what TFC was, I got over it and started appreciating TF2 for what it is, and not what it is not compared to TFC. My only hope is that respawn timers are toned down (I don't even think they need to be removed, just not 15 seconds) and the melee weapons get you demolished if you try and use them like they should. I'm sorry but armor that can absorb a direct volatile rocket projectile will not crumble from a fucking baseball bat.

[lastshooter]

Are you serious? I've been trying to really comprehend why people are speaking for me on this and other forums. You're the kind of person who really makes it hard for other venues to take us seriously. Someone from outside this community who plays TF2 is going to come on here and read this, and not want to join it because people like you decided that we're all hardcore gamers and we all think that people who like TF2 must be 9 year olds. News flash, we're competitive gamers not necessarily hard-core gamers. Sure we all loved TFC at one point or another, some of us are upset that TF2 changed so much.. but if you read these forums, you'll see that a lot, and dare I say most, of us are pretty fucking happy with the way things are going. If you go to any other gaming community forum you'll see that players are talking about TF2 at CPL, know how many years it took TFC to get to CPL? Four...and even then only an eighth of the community showed.

You enjoyed the last few months of TFC? There were quality players who knew the game in public servers? If a quality player is measured in terms of the basic skill level of an -nZ or DeX members, then I can understand why you'd feel that way. Personally, I found the last few months to be completely fucking boring. Pub play consisted of all the clanners joining the same team in Twisted 24/7 Dustbowl and beating the shit out of the pubbers there. Going into Jigglypuffs or Drippy's meant playing scout and capping 10 times in a row before dying or playing soldier and going 90-3 before the map ended. Dark Realm had a few decent players but it was all mcxvi and uC guys, with special fatal and decap appearances, who dominated the server.

Bottom line: Most of the people posting in this forum labeled Team Fortress 2 find the game fun, if you don't find it fun then go play TFC or Fortress Forever or neither for all I care. But, goddamn, quit fucking telling other people that I feel the same way that you do about TF2.

First off, read the topic s-l-o-w-l-y
D-i-s-a-p-p-o-i-n-t-e-d w-i-t-h T-F-2

There you go, now let it sink in a few mins then read(slow)


Yes I am serious and what I meant by quality players, is perhaps not so much in skill, but who were a "team player" i.e. not blocking respawn,running around infected, at the very least playing a class as it should be.
When you see this happen in TF2 you'll get a clue.
All the reasons that TFC lasted all these years has been removed from TF2 and is exactly why TF2 will be a faded faux paux in six months.
As for other "venues" I personly dont care if they take me or you seriously or not, that game is a joke.Thats my opinon and I'll express it I as very well seem fit to.As for impressions for newcomers, you Vampire will run more away than I could ever dream of. I do however wish you much success in it, if thats what you like. Personally, I could have spent 45.00 in much better ways, as this was 45.00 wasted.
btw, I never was not in Dex thats someone else, stop searching about mine and get a life while your at it.
To sum it all up, that makes you wrong in every statement.
Cheers

[GhOsT]

First off, read the topic s-l-o-w-l-y
D-i-s-a-p-p-o-i-n-t-e-d w-i-t-h T-F-2

There you go, now let it sink in a few mins then read(slow)


Yes I am serious and what I meant by quality players, is perhaps not so much in skill, but who were a "team player" i.e. not blocking respawn,running around infected, at the very least playing a class as it should be.
When you see this happen in TF2 you'll get a clue.
All the reasons that TFC lasted all these years has been removed from TF2 and is exactly why TF2 will be a faded faux paux in six months.
As for other "venues" I personly dont care if they take me or you seriously or not, that game is a joke.Thats my opinon and I'll express it I as very well seem fit to.As for impressions for newcomers, you Vampire will run more away than I could ever dream of. I do however wish you much success in it, if thats what you like. Personally, I could have spent 45.00 in much better ways, as this was 45.00 wasted.
btw, I never was not in Dex thats someone else, stop searching about mine and get a life while your at it.
To sum it all up, that makes you wrong in every statement.
Cheers

Perhaps all the reasons TFC has been in a steady state of decline for the past few years have been removed in TF2. We have no idea what the future has in store for TF2. To think it'll die out fast because you don't like it is just being naive.

[advocate]

Perhaps all the reasons TFC has been in a steady state of decline for the past few years have been removed in TF2. We have no idea what the future has in store for TF2. To think it'll die out fast because you don't like it is just being naive.

depth is usually accredited to the reason why certain games retain their replayability. While the classes are certainly unique in TF2, modeling TFC, they're all lacking a gun they previously had in TFC, if not 2, (spy has no tranq or shotgun, and the pistol isn't very comparable) and there's no grenades. This means that the classes are less in depth and it's possible that the game may not last as long because of that. I agree with you that talk at this point is just speculation but we all love this franchise so much we're already ahead of our selves and we're only talking about a beta.

[Milosenpotion]

How many of those removed guns were even used? Not only that, but half the classes in tfc weren't even used; I don't think depth is a great arguement yet.

[GhOsT]

depth is usually accredited to the reason why certain games retain their replayability. While the classes are certainly unique in TF2, modeling TFC, they're all lacking a gun they previously had in TFC, if not 2, (spy has no tranq or shotgun, and the pistol isn't very comparable) and there's no grenades. This means that the classes are less in depth and it's possible that the game may not last as long because of that. I agree with you that talk at this point is just speculation but we all love this franchise so much we're already ahead of our selves and we're only talking about a beta.
So tell me, why does CS still persist as the #1 online shooter by a massive longshot? I would say CS isn't close to being as "deep" as TFC.

[Toastie]

depth is usually accredited to the reason why certain games retain their replayability. While the classes are certainly unique in TF2, modeling TFC, they're all lacking a gun they previously had in TFC, if not 2, (spy has no tranq or shotgun, and the pistol isn't very comparable) and there's no grenades. This means that the classes are less in depth and it's possible that the game may not last as long because of that. I agree with you that talk at this point is just speculation but we all love this franchise so much we're already ahead of our selves and we're only talking about a beta.

i always felt grenades made classes lack depth... most of tfc in the last few months just threw grenades like fucking retards.

No offense to DMS, but i rememeber playing them on redgiant and all they did was bind thier keyboard to +gren1 and +gren2 ... counted on us killing them when they were out, came back and mashed thier gren-bound keyboard all over again... and it wasnt thier fault, thats just how everyone played lately. INC'ing was called and ppl just spammed that way, they didnt defend it, just spammed it... but they had to, because if they didnt spam it, the offensive guy would just nade-shotty him from a million miles away anyway.

It was mindless, you didnt have to think about it. INCOMING SPIRAL... and most people would just turn and +gren it the fuck up

This game has alot of depth in its own little way, and if you want me to elaborate on my opinion i will, but ill just assume no one does.

[polarity]

Bleh.

[Volvieras]

First off, read the topic s-l-o-w-l-y
D-i-s-a-p-p-o-i-n-t-e-d w-i-t-h T-F-2

There you go, now let it sink in a few mins then read(slow)


Yes I am serious and what I meant by quality players, is perhaps not so much in skill, but who were a "team player" i.e. not blocking respawn,running around infected, at the very least playing a class as it should be.
When you see this happen in TF2 you'll get a clue.
All the reasons that TFC lasted all these years has been removed from TF2 and is exactly why TF2 will be a faded faux paux in six months.
As for other "venues" I personly dont care if they take me or you seriously or not, that game is a joke.Thats my opinon and I'll express it I as very well seem fit to.As for impressions for newcomers, you Vampire will run more away than I could ever dream of. I do however wish you much success in it, if thats what you like. Personally, I could have spent 45.00 in much better ways, as this was 45.00 wasted.
btw, I never was not in Dex thats someone else, stop searching about mine and get a life while your at it.
To sum it all up, that makes you wrong in every statement.
Cheers

lol? I'll run away new gamers? I haven't made a negative post since my "return" to gaming. I run a public TF2 server which is consistently full. I'm actually trying to bring as much life into our community as I can.

Either way, my post wasn't ALL directed toward you, more-so just a lot of frustration with people bitching about TF2. The fact that you made your post so "matter of fact-ly" was what really made me reply. You don't speak for this community, or me. So please, stop making blanket statements.

[CR0C0DILE]

So tell me, why does CS still persist as the #1 online shooter by a massive longshot? I would say CS isn't close to being as "deep" as TFC.
Why do al the lemmings run off a cliff? Well the first lemming is just crazy and the rest just follow him because theyre fucking lemmings.

[Volvieras]

Why do al the lemmings run off a cliff? Well the first lemming is just crazy and the rest just follow him because theyre fucking lemmings.

Argumentation at it's finest.

[Klone]

why is the sunset good? why are boobs good?

[lastshooter]

lol? I'll run away new gamers? I haven't made a negative post since my "return" to gaming. I run a public TF2 server which is consistently full. I'm actually trying to bring as much life into our community as I can.

Either way, my post wasn't ALL directed toward you, more-so just a lot of frustration with people bitching about TF2. The fact that you made your post so "matter of fact-ly" was what really made me reply. You don't speak for this community, or me. So please, stop making blanket statements.

Glad to hear you have not and gj on your efforts. Nor mine was to you and was made as an opinion, which is worth less then 2 cents. I do regret not adding a "imho".Actullay, I felt no one would care,lol.
I do agree the topic is rather tasteless for this forum and should not be here. We all have likes and dislikes and giving negative opinons on a new game forum is flat out wrong.
I am frustrated too, I had high hopes for TF2. I know its just my own reasons I dislike the game and truly wished I did. I am sure its a great game for you and many others, but it just did'nt work for myself.