CAL Team Fortress 2 League

[the scrill]

5v5

[Klone]

God you're a moron. Some of your posts are just painful to read.

And do you Always capitalize the First letter of Random words? Is that a counter-strike thing?

It's really pretty simple. More players on a team means the team is more able to use a wider variety of classes. I don't understand how you can argue that. It's a fact. The sky is blue, Richard Simmons is a faggot, and teams of 8 are more diverse than teams of 6.

[dummy]

Originally Posted by |RES|arod

No, because the classes have their place. In 6v6, you cant necessarily afford to devote a class to pyro because you cant have one player just sitting around corners ready to ambush people. Or you can't devote a player to spy because you need those 2 scouts doing most of the pushing. I don't see what your point is. Adding two extra players obviously adds more possibilities. That is a factual statement and not an opinion. There really is no debating that.

ok? but youre ignoring the fact that no matter how many people u can use, theres going to be a strat/class makeup everyone will use.

[elwood-]

ok? but you're ignoring the fact that your argument can be said exactly the same for 6v6

[beyond]

Originally Posted by unoo

so you are an idiot and dense to boot... how cute

arod might be an idiot, but you're the dense one for not willing to admit 8 players would create more class diversity.

Sure you can argue the point that specific strategies and class makeups will still arise, but I doubt any maps will have a "perfect strat" and I'm willing to bet you see more diverse strats in 8v8 settings.

Just think of TFC, defensive classes were much more diverse in 8v8/9v9 then 5v5. Most 5v5 maps had one or 2 strats that worked well, while 8v8 and 9v9 maps have many.

With that said, I still support strictly 6v6 leagues, but calling someone dumb and dense when you fail to both counter their argument and support your own (not that theres much to support, I think anyone with common sense will agree with what arod said) is dense.

[dummy]

Originally Posted by elwooody

ok? but you're ignoring the fact that your argument can be said exactly the same for 6v6

no im not moron, thats what im saying. it will end up the same, nothing will change..

[|RES|arod]

Originally Posted by dummy

no im not moron, thats what im saying. it will end up the same, nothing will change..

Except it will, and the past history of tfc already proves that. TFC was a pretty unbalanced game, but 9v9 matches always had many possible effective strategies. When I think back to my 5v5 matches, the strategies were almost always the same. I think that everyone can agree that TF2 has 9 almost equally useful classes. Thus, it will provide the opportunity for teams to take advantage of their clan's personal strengths. Just because some good clan uses some strat all the time does not mean that everyone else will mimic it. I don't think anyone will know what the best strategies are for this game right now, much less several years from now.

[unoo]

you guys are arguing one point, and then i refute it and act like you meant something else....

Make up your mind.

he said 8v8 had more strategy possibilities than 6v6, which IS bullshit.

class diversity IS NOT the samething as strategy.

[beyond]

He never used the word strategy. Hell, read his post, he is arguing diversity not strategy. I don't know if you are purposely trying to look like a fool, but you are definitely succeeding.

Edit: I feel that I should elaborate on my point. If you take time you read arod's post, you will see that he alludes to situations in which a clan might be able to fit a pyro or a spy into their normal lineup due to the greater number of players. He goes on the use the word "possibilities" when referring to the extra player spots.

No where does he mention specific class makeups or potential makeups that may be used. No where does he state or even come close to implying that 8v8 would create more unique strategies then 6v6 (though he may believe it... I certainly do).

The former of the 2 statements that I just made would imply he is speaking of diversity. The latter of the two refers to strategy. If you would please elaborate how you got strategy out of it, it would be great. Also, if you could please explain how you could possibly call someone dense and dumb when you fail to both offer a counter to their argument, and also feel that used the aforementioned insults makes your point valid, I would like to hear it.

[unoo]

Originally Posted by Klone

God you're a moron. Some of your posts are just painful to read.

And do you Always capitalize the First letter of Random words? Is that a counter-strike thing?

It's really pretty simple. More players on a team means the team is more able to use a wider variety of classes. I don't understand how you can argue that. It's a fact. The sky is blue, Richard Simmons is a faggot, and teams of 8 are more diverse than teams of 6.

this forum needs a :tard: smiley for idiots like yourself

[unoo]

Originally Posted by beyond

He never used the word strategy. Hell, read his post, he is arguing diversity not strategy. I don't know if you are purposely trying to look like a fool, but you are definitely succeeding.

no. it started as an arguement about strategy diversity which somehow morphed in class diversity.

[beyond]

So you're response to someone who made quite an obvious point is to call them dense and dumb? The post may be about strategies, but when you respond to a specific post, one assumes that you are responding to the statements made in that post. All you have done is make yourself look like a fool.

[Klone]

Originally Posted by unoo

this forum needs a :tard: smiley for idiots like yourself

good juan

You simply have two more people, this isnt a strategy.

Yeah, that's a very powerful argument you made there. Here is a pie chart to support your argument:

[unoo]

Originally Posted by beyond

So you're response to someone who made quite an obvious point is to call them dense and dumb? The post may be about strategies, but when you respond to a specific post, one assumes that you are responding to the statements made in that post. All you have done is make yourself look like a fool.

wtf are u talking about. He said "adding two more players increases possibilities (in strats)"

which is total bullshit.

[beyond]

Lets stop for a second and try to use logic.

Before making that statement, he referred to possible cases in which an extra that that normally would not be played in 6v6 would be played in 8v8. The quote that you gave follows those statements.

Now we can assume he is making a logical follow up to his previous sentences by stating that in general, there will be more class possibilities. In fact, if you read his statement for what it is without adding your own bullshit parenthesis, that seems to be the obvious.

Of course, you can also assume that he completely changed the focus of his argument by adding your bullshit interpretation in parenthesis. Infact, I can do the same to you:

Originally Posted by unoo

which is total bullshit (like the words that I type).

[Unfor]

I support Rule #8 with all my heart.

[unoo]

Originally Posted by beyond

Lets stop for a second and try to use logic.

Before making that statement, he referred to possible cases in which an extra that that normally would not be played in 6v6 would be played in 8v8. The quote that you gave follows those statements.

Now we can assume he is making a logical follow up to his previous sentences by stating that in general, there will be more class possibilities. In fact, if you read his statement for what it is without adding your own bullshit parenthesis, that seems to be the obvious.

Of course, you can also assume that he completely changed the focus of his argument by adding your bullshit interpretation in parenthesis. Infact, I can do the same to you:

ahaha

[elwood-]

Originally Posted by dummy

no im not moron, thats what im saying. it will end up the same, nothing will change..

i've played scrims and also league matches in 6v6, 8v8, and also 9v9 highlander. there were no stalemates and more action with the larger player base and generally more dynamic gameplay. whereas 6v6, there was much more static and sudden death was more common. with a larger player base there's more action and less "sit/regroup" like there is in 6v6. this is team fortress and it's a dynamic game. therefore, with my experiences in all formats think that the game should be played as dynamic as possible which is 8v8/highlander.

i agree with arod. TFC 5v5, basically, with every map each team had the same exact strategy. there were a lot of imbalances with TFC. however, with the larger player base it gave more opportunities to "break outside the box" and create new twists and strategies as a team, especially with the 9v9 format. now moving to TF2, valve has really perfected map/class balance. so using the larger player base in TF2 like in TFC should make the best dynamic game and it does.

i'm not a moron, i think this argument is retarded and most people trying to pick and choose one ladder are the morons. yes, the game can be played 6v6, 8v8, and 9v9 highlander. so there should be divisions and support for all formats that suits everyone's personal preference. why can't the two-three different formats exist? what's the problem with that? Battlefield42 supports multiple formats in CAL. TF2 is going to be huge and could definitely support both and maybe even a 9v9 highlander which would be killer

http://caleague.com/?division=bf28
http://caleague.com/?division=5v5

an existence of both 6v6 and 8v8, final answer. make the people in your community happy.

[unoo]

id like to see an 8v8 and 6v6 league made to, just for the laughs

[Yukfo0]

well mathematically there is right?

Just think, if you have 8 players, and you take away 2 players, you don't get MORE strategies or MORE diversity, that cant be possible can it?
For every strategy you use 6v6 you can use 8v8 right (just now you have 2 extra players to assign)?
I'm not a math person though.

I like 6v6&7v7..have yet to play 8v8 ;o

[beyond]

Also, if you really want to argue the whole more or less strategies thing, feel free to offer up some actual arguments then just straight opinion.I personally feel going strictly 6v6 is the best for TF2, but denying 8v8 would offer more class diversity AND potential strategies makes little sense.

For starters, I think most people here would have to agree that there would be more class diversity in 8v8 settings. I believe that most would also agree that classes makeups in TF2 are very dynamic, with classes that counter one another, and clans shifting their class makeups to take advantage of these counters.

Now, beyond the obvious class choices and combos for some maps, there are a few player slots for clans to set their lineup, perhaps based on player skill (ie. having a very skilled sniper), the map, or the opposing team's lineup. With there being 9 unique (and useful) classes in the game and no possible way to use all of them in either 6v6 or 8v8, how a clan fills these additional non-obvious slots is very important.

In an 8v8 setting, there is more flexibility in the slots to make these lineup shifts. Because of the increased class diversity, these lineup shifts would almost create forced strategy changes, as your team might have to adjust to the other team's engy that is holding down a point by switching a player to spy. Maybe you want to switch someone to sniper to counter the other team's sniper. Maybe you want to switch someone to demo to start holding a point that needs defense.

An 8v8 setting creates more possibilities but not necessarily better gameplay. Personally, I feel that a strictly 6v6 league can work even on maps such as gravelpit and dustbowl. Clans will just have to adjust.

[beyond]

Originally Posted by unoo

ahaha

Does that mean you give up because your logic is... idiotic?

[elwood-]

Originally Posted by unoo

id like to see an 8v8 and 6v6 league made to, just for the laughs

you contribute nothing to this topic and your posts are worthless like you

[trake]

such a douche and so cocky already.

[MoonGuardian]

The nice thing about 9v9-Highlander, is it creates a REALLY nice diversity in strategies. Play in a match/practice for one, you would understand.


Personally, I think it's foolish to think teams couldn't find 2+ players to their rosters to play 8v8, rather than 6v6.


The diversity available is increase with each additional player used.

Really though, you think TF2 should be played with these 6v6 squads? This isn't some realistic war game, this is god damn team fortress! Epic matches are played in TF! 12v12! 10v10! 9v9!

[unoo]

Originally Posted by MoonGuardian

The nice thing about 9v9-Highlander, is it creates a REALLY nice diversity in strategies. Play in a match/practice for one, you would understand.


Personally, I think it's foolish to think teams couldn't find 2+ players to their rosters to play 8v8, rather than 6v6.


The diversity available is increase with each additional player used.

Really though, you think TF2 should be played with these 6v6 squads? This isn't some realistic war game, this is god damn team fortress! Epic matches are played in TF! 12v12! 10v10! 9v9!

i dont get you people. Highlander has REALLY nice diversity in strategies? How can i argue with that, its like an arguement to itself....

Originally Posted by Bean

such a douche and so cocky already.

fuck you, i havent said shit about peoples skill, nor mine.

[MoonGuardian]

oh, I give up on you. The peanut gallery is right. You are a moron.

[Sutterkane]

For those saying it's OH SO HARD to get 8 people for a match...

TFC HAS BEEN PLAYING 9V9 FOR EIGHT FUCKING YEARS. IF IT IS A PROBLEM TO GET PEOPLE FOR MATCHES, YOU PROBABLY SUCK ASS AS A LEADER AND NEED TO RECRUIT MORE, OR GET PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO FUCKING SHOW UP.


I always thought that was the dumbest ass argument for full time tfc 8v8.

b b b but, what if we have trouble fielding 6? Should the ENTIRE LEAGUE move to 5v5 now? What if people have problems then? 4v4? When does it end.

[Cobalt]

1v1 bring your shovel

[CHIPMAN]

Keep in mind that this is not the cesspool. If you wan't to flame someone, go there. Otherwise you'll face my wraith.